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Kramsib
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Father and protector of PROGRESSIVE GAMES, SANTANDER, Cantabria, España (Spain), Unión Europea (European Union)
Sep 2001
time: 06:27
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I wonder how many cheats the AI does.
As far as I know, in some levels, it starts with 2 settlers, its production is increased, it knows the entire map and consequently where the resources are, where your cities are and even where to attack (because it knows where your units are too).
Cheats, cheats and more cheats, which ones do you know?
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Cruddy
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Bottlenecks. It always knows if it can get through a bottleneck or not.
Personally I exploit this - let a civ move a big stack of units across my terrioty (no Right of Passage). When peace is declared (or it wins) he has to move them all back again - 1 turn per move, costing him 1 gold per unit.
It's nice to watch the AI bleed - but it's not a strategy for the faint hearted.
If you close the bottleneck behind him, all his units fortify (usually on the spot their on). Even more fun - deplete its treasury until you open the bottleneck again.
As for starting units, you can adjust that. But think of the things the AI doesn't cheat on - you can sell Great Library owners tech they'll get for free, it NEVER makes suicide runs across seas or oceas (so the human is more likely to get first contact).
Finally, the AI is totally stupid on worker instructions, making terrain improvements that are useless due to corruption.
If it didn't have those extra starting units or faster builds the harder levels would be cakewalks.
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Cruddy
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I've noticed in tech trading that the AI will accept a trade tech, but refuse the same trade on the same turn if you have traded the tech to another Civ in the meantime. It's my turn, so they shouldn't know what techs have been traded that turn... but they do.
Barvs. The enemy units always know where the barbs are, and head towards them from 3 or more tiles away, when they couldn't even see that they were there.
Air interception - if I've put up massive amounts of fighters on air superiority, the AI won't dare launch any air missions because it knows it has 50% chance of being toast. How does it know???
That's enough from me - any other AI slight of hand???
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Cruddy
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No, you can't draft before Nationalism - I'm sure you know that skywalker. OK, pop rushing spearman has a very similar effect (but it does cause more unhappiness).
Of course, if the AI is not in a despotic ancient regime this doesn't happen.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
I've noticed in tech trading that the AI will accept a trade tech, but refuse the same trade on the same turn if you have traded the tech to another Civ in the meantime. It's my turn, so they shouldn't know what techs have been traded that turn... but they do.
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Not a cheat.
The tech system is dynamic, the more civs that have a tech, the less it is relatively worth. They know that, you should know that. Look at the research time after a tech has spread to other civs. It lowers the research time.
A Cheat:
AI know where the resources are, will plant cities in odd places, thousands of years later, will be a resource there
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:27
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The only known and confirmed true cheat is, that the AI knows the entire map, including all resources and the location of all units on it, regardless if in cities or not. Knowing this, one can explain a lot of derived phenomena, like the mentioned "bottleneck" and others.
A lot of the mentioned other "cheats" are bonuses, that the AIs get in higher difficulty levels, or are available for the human as well, like Cruddys mentioned "trade cheat". Mind you that the human can (and often will) also accept a bad trade deal, just to make money when he needs it, or to take it away from the other AIs.
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dexters
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Vancouver, Canada
Nov 2001
time: 05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Manya
Two turns in a row, int he acient age, i don't think so, especially since it was broke |
Well I'm sure Catt have something good to say.
But I have PTW and have watched a couple of games on debug mode. This means I can see everything. I can enter the city view of the AI cities to see what they are building.
I've spent tons of time watching for any obvious cheats, like building things faster than they can but I haven't seen it.
AI can rush build just like humans. As for having it happen twice in a row, that is a rather vague statement on your part.
1) The rushed units probably has been sitting there. The AI does move more units to fortify cities that are being attacked.
2) If you attack turn 1 and kill a spearman but somehow didn't take the city , the only reason that can happen is if there are defenders left in the city. Otherwise, any attacking unit will move into the city square and capture it. If that is the case, the AI simply rushes another unit the new turn.
3) if AI has 0 gold, it doesn't mean it is broke. The AI Ha been programmed to make use of its gold. If it has extra gold, they will use it to trade with human and other AI players and to rush improvements and units. The AI likes to utilize its gold. Unlike most human players they tend not to keep a large bank account around, which if you ask me can be to their disadvantage.
In anycase, I've made many many trades with AI civs who have 0 in the bank, but can afford 250 gpt for techs. And no, AI doesn't cheap with gpt payments.
Frankly, the accusations that AI can build things faster is unsubstantiated. I've seen the AI rush wonders with Great Leaders, and rush units with gold or population. It plays by the human's rules 95+ of the time. If you play regent, AI gets no unit bonuses either. Below Regent, humans get production bonuses.
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dexters
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Vancouver, Canada
Nov 2001
time: 05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaybe
Kramsib, the difficulty level advantages the AI gets are not cheats. They are the only advantages they get for the higher levels, and if you win, you get higher scores in return (if that means anything to you).
As you stated, they know where your units are, they know the map and where resources are (though not WHAT they are).
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Jaybe, from watching several debug games, I can confirm that AI does know where resources are, but they can't seem to see it if they don't have the tech. Workers usually don't even link the resource unless it is by accident through the road network.
I've seen AI cities sitting next to oil patches that aren't linked.
quote:
OTOH, YOU have a brain and can think; the AI cannot. |
Let's not forget that the AI has to play through every f'ing game you play, even if it is hopeless for them. I'm assuming that if a human player is forced by gunpoint to play through a hopeless Civ3 game, say with their tiny 2 city empire vs. a huge AI, they would be doing exactly the same things human players bemoan about.
"Oh, WTF, AI so stupid. It declares war on me when it has no chance..."
Heck, if I was forced to play a game like that, I'd declare war and end my misery.
Not to mention a good amount of time, these weak AI civs, by their sheer balls of standing up to human and AI players even if they are outmatched, actually pull it off. In a recent REGENT game, I've wiped Russia off my continent. It had one island city left, just outside the Spanish coast. So what does it do? Declare war on me twice, with the second time being done just as war weariness was setting in and my Russian cities were revolting. It also managed to sign several trade embargos against me with Egypt and spain. I decided to end their misery only to find out they had an MPP with the English, who I just recently made peace with to reduce war weariness. Guess what happen? Next turn, my economy is paralysed by mass revolts. Tell me. Does a human have the guts to play a gambit like that? A 4 pop 1 city Civ, bringing down the economy of a world superpower. This is like Al Queda shutting down all the American cities.
Heck, that would be a major victory for anyone.
Most human players quit at the outset of a percieved loss. I admire the AI's emotionless play. It makes then better in so many ways than human players.
If people want intelligent AI, Firaxis should make is so that as you are winning, the AI will inadvertantly quit the game, or reload from a saved game. Or how about an AI who refuses to play a map because they have a bad starting location.
Humans cheat so much, the fact that the AI knows the map, general resource locations (but not the resources) and where units are, is at best, a small small advantage.
Last edited by dexters on 04-05-2003 at 11:39
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Cruddy
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Oh, right, I thought this thread was about listing things the AI cheats at. Not about why such a list is meaningless.
Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
Edit: And as for the computer knowing where my fighters are, that's garbage. If the fighters are fortified, the computer will bomb me. If the fighters are on air superiority missions, they will chicken out. The computer doesn't just know where my units are, it knows what orders I have given my units.
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03-05-2003 12:42
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