04-05-2003 17:39									#1
	Somewhat late request for fifth team Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I and another player called Triped would like to take a fifth faction in this game. I know this is kinda late and that initialy four factions were decided upon so it also somewhat will change the setup.

Anyway - if accepted we would prefer drones, but morgan or believers would be OK too.

As I realize I am both late and stretching the setup I will understand if there are some who object and the proposal is not accepted.

	04-05-2003 19:37									#2
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All the current teams are still open for people to join, if you're interested. Hive, UoP, CyCon and Pirates IIRC. (Join the Hive )

-Jam

	04-05-2003 20:57									#3
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I don't think we'll have a 5th team, due to having voted for 4, having voted on which 4, and we won't have enough people to keep 4 going, IMHO.

Sorry, but please join either the Hive, UoP, CyCon or Pirates. Will be a good game.

	05-05-2003 09:23									#4
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You know, the Pirates are looking for some good 'mates... there are only two of us thus far.

	05-05-2003 09:29									#5
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Come join the Hive, see interesting sites, meet interesting people, get cushy government appointed job, oppress interesting people.

	05-05-2003 14:25									#6
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I fully support Buster's wish.

	05-05-2003 18:44									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Main_Brain I fully support Buster's wish.

On the same grounds as was mentioned for the addition of Pirates as a fourth team I can somewhat understand, however IMHO if a fifth team was added they shouldn't have any play-style similarities to the other four (ie. Morgan, Lal, or greenie.)

Thus you'd have a money-grubber, diplomat, or tree-hugger among two science factions and two military factions. This would make for a much more interesting game than, say, Drones joining in... however we'd then have an unbalanced 3 vs. 2 possiblity which would really make it hard on the side with 2 factions.

If we had a fifth, IMHO we'd need a sixth... and I really doubt that we'll find enough support for all of them.

	05-05-2003 19:51									#8
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Playing Morgan would be OK too or another faction for that matter if it is felt some other more fits the scene.

I was hoping to combine this with introducing some of the finer points of SMAC to a couple of other not so experienced players and hope I could combine it with a fun game.

Thus signing up on another team is not really relevant. We will be minimum two but I expect probably two more will enter.

Anyway - I have no wish to delay your game or to create complications. If most feel another faction could add to the game great, but if more feel that it interferes with the setup as they expected/desire it I fully understand that too.

	05-05-2003 23:16									#9
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You didn't clarify if you would join one of the existing factions or not, in case a fifth faction is not allowed.

	06-05-2003 01:56									#10
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Sorry I thought I did - no I will not be joining one of the existing ones.

Not because of primadonna frills - but what would be having my interest is teaming with some specific players I want to go over some aspects of the game with.

	06-05-2003 03:03									#11
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I prefer to call Yang and Drones Industrialist.
The difference between them is not subtile.
If Uni and CyCon go, I am sure Yang&Domai could rock as well.
I dont see the Point in closing out a possible 4 Players because of what? Of the 3-2 Possiblity?
I find it to be negligated, Alliances are likey to change InGame for some Times as I know all you Backstabbers..
And an Yang,Pirate,Domai Vs researchers Combo would I personally find very funny :P

Otherwise all the Arguments regarding the Pirate Joining Apply.
AI aint good, etc.

	06-05-2003 03:25									#12
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But with more humans it takes longer, and draws people away from other factions. The main problem will be number of people - not enough to run 5 probably. We were going for three, but we thought we'd try 4, to make it interesting. 5 is too much IMHO.

	06-05-2003 03:28									#13
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I don't beleive a 5th team would cause too many problems assuming you can get enough people to activly participate in the game; if we're low on active players this could very well turn into little more than a normal PBEM.

	06-05-2003 03:33									#14
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Yes, but that would be bad. I'd rather have few enough teams that it doesn't turn into an ordinary PBEM, as many people want to play only as a team, due to noviceness or not having SMAX. We are not assuming we can get enough people, because last time told us that we couldn't.

	06-05-2003 03:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue But with more humans it takes longer, and draws people away from other factions. The main problem will be number of people - not enough to run 5 probably. We were going for three, but we thought we'd try 4, to make it interesting. 5 is too much IMHO.

This begs the question of how many players is enough?

Personally if we can get on average 5 active players per team I would be more than satisfied (given the rather relatively low turnout for the last game).

If we need or want more players we can always advertise in the Civ forums; hopefully that will allow us to recruit a few more people.

	06-05-2003 04:19									#16
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quote: and draws people away from other factions

No I dont think so, as he wouldn't play otherwise and would only pull some guys in.
I doubt wheter some1 who signed up for another Faction would switch, but at the end it returns to the Question stated by Volt. how many ARE enough? I say One and rest my case

	06-05-2003 06:42									#17
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Five teams would make the diplomatic aspect very interesting. And it is not always 3 and 2 or the same 3 and 2. The extra turn would allow for another 24 hours 'in team' discussion preparing for the next move.

They come as a ready made team so are not diluting our recruitment exercise.
But as FF says they should be a different faction from the other four. However I wouldn't like it to become a CGN v 'Poly thing

Perhaps it needs a poll but it would better if we just got a feel for peoples views from this thread.

I don't think we would need a sixth team to balance out the Dip.

	06-05-2003 12:21									#18
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I have to agree with Herc there, since they aren't taking away anyone (and until today we only had two pirates so.... lol) 3 should be enough to run another faction. Now if we could figure what other faction would complement the current 4 - it may come down to that bit; is there any other faction we could add that would add enough extra depth to the play to make people -enjoy- a fifth faction?

	06-05-2003 12:29									#19
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Really any fifth faction would have to be one of the hippy ones - Lal or Deirdre - but remember guys that this should be a demo game, not a PBEM. One person per team is just a normal PBEM.

-Jam

	06-05-2003 13:23									#20
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If it's a complete team already, I say allow it. The more the merrier.

	06-05-2003 14:42									#21
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And the slower, too...

	06-05-2003 17:58									#22
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right. But then draw a borderline: Five is the maximum, I think. Three people per team, that allows two of them being offline for a time. One per team is too less.

I say let them in, as long as they´re an active team and don´t prolongen the period between the turns too much.

	06-05-2003 18:18									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire This begs the question of how many players is enough?

As many as possible, we need 1 who can play the game on eahc faction, whereas many players have said they will participate, but want to be in a larger team,a s they are unsure about actually playing it. To get 1 active enough, we need 4 or 5 per team, which is what we have now, without a 5th team.

quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Personally if we can get on average 5 active players per team I would be more than satisfied (given the rather relatively low turnout for the last game).

However we don't even have 5 per team for the 4 we currently have. And would you rather have 5 for 5 teams, or 6 people for 4 teams? We never have enough, last time with one team it got a little slow at some points. Id rather play it safe and get 4 to work, than go for 5 and have a bigger chance of failure.

quote: Originally posted by Voltaire If we need or want more players we can always advertise in the Civ forums; hopefully that will allow us to recruit a few more people.

We already have, both CFC and CGN. We are trying to get as many as possible, but I would go for having more on each team, rather than more teams. And we already voted for 4. If you want to let them, go ahead, but I think it will cause problems when people start leaving.

	06-05-2003 20:48									#24
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I'll vote YES for the 5th team; the fewer AI's the better.

It seems that Buster's team are people that would not otherwise be in, so it isn't shrinking any other teams.

	06-05-2003 21:26									#25
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I also agree with a fifth team.

	06-05-2003 22:31									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue However we don't even have 5 per team for the 4 we currently have. And would you rather have 5 for 5 teams, or 6 people for 4 teams? We never have enough, last time with one team it got a little slow at some points. Id rather play it safe and get 4 to work, than go for 5 and have a bigger chance of failure.

Consciousness (6 people)
Hive (5 people)
University (7 people)
Pirates (4 people)

6+5+7+4=22

22/4=5.5

Therefore we on average have 5.5 people per team.

Let us say this, we should only allow a 5th team if we can guarantee that the people in it will actively participate, if not, no 5th team. This should make everyone happy for those who want a 5th team would get it if they can muster enough people to join the team, and the rest of us have some level of assurance that the teams will remain active.

	06-05-2003 23:23									#27
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Aye

	06-05-2003 23:28									#28
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Please vote here.

	07-05-2003 00:09									#29
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However, it will also mean extra time for them to play, and them getting enough people might take people who would otherwise participate in other teams. Besides, 5.5 is the average, and 5 I think should be the minimum for any team.

	07-05-2003 04:40									#30
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I'm all for the extra time thing though... the more time the merrier in this kind of exercise!

Part of the fun, after all, is supposed to be in the getting there (the end) not just trying to get there the fastest.

I'll be voting to add the fifth.