04-06-2003 04:39									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Sava You aren't making sense Slowwhand. The troops in Grenada were going into an unknown situation, yet I don't see any movies about the sacrifice and struggle the US forces faced in Grenada. And hindsight is completely relevant here. Don't people use hindsight when making historically based movies?

Heartbreak Ridge.

Umm...and why does anybody have a problem with our not encountering resistance at the hospital. The thing was planned in a fluid environment, very rapidly. Of course, they went in with overwhelming force. I've never seen any reports that said that they fought any forces inside the hospital. So what's the deal? Does anyone seriously believe that they went in shooting blanks? That we had enough time to stage such a thing and that we would have bothered?

What a bunch of losers some of you all are. Stick to moving vet spies and howies around on the screen...

	04-06-2003 04:43									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident well the general was wrong. I've been in the military and let me tell you snafu's happen all the time. hence the name snafu. I can't say for sure if he intentionally mislead the media or just made a mistake. Often intel doesn't go up the chain of command properly. If he did indeed mislead the media and public then shame on him.

Voice of reason. the second guessing Civ-playing Euro-poosies all jump to conspiracy theories in a heartbeat.

	04-06-2003 05:13									#63
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of course. This is where bias gets you in trouble.

You are more inclined to believe something you want to be true.

The best path is the middle path. Try to look at things objectively. I have no left or right wing bias. Yes people call me a right winger, that is only because they are so far left wing my views seem right wing to them.

The military are people too. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes grunts exaggerate a story to make it seem more exciting.

In either case this isn't some big political conspiracy to get Bush greater popularity and to get him reelected.

Most likely it is someone who had faulty info spouting his mouth off.

But there is no way in hell you can say they went in there with blanks. Did you guys not see how many MIA's and POW's taken or killed in that same area? That area was a cluster**** from day one. The marines did not have full control over the city. To go in there with blanks without having full control of the city would be slightly suicidal. The enemy could have planned an ambush right outside the hospital if they known the raid was happening.

	04-06-2003 06:29									#64
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Yes. It just shows how totally wacked some of these computer geek wargamers are. They think that the world is like Civ. Heck they think you can plan an invasion down to the last howie. Probably the kind of people who do combat reloading, caravan rehoming, and combat whining in Civ3.

	04-06-2003 06:50									#65
	Suffering from ads?

As ****ed up as the military is in real life, I do have reason to be thankful that most of the people on this board will never be in a situation where they have to plan and execute an attack in real life. Please for the sake of many, stay at your computer and don't venture out in the very nasty and unpredictable realm of real combat.

	04-06-2003 11:07									#66
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Just a snafu, eh? The general just made a mistake? Well that's possible, but the question then is why didn't the brass correct the story? Why not just say that the initial reports were exaggerated by the heat of battle? Why not be honest about what happened?

But weeks after the event, they were asked what happened and they refused to say. They claimed the details had to be kept secret for operational reasons, and yet in the first press conference, the brass was more than happy to show videos of the "raid" and to provide details. And we all know that telling the truth about whether there were or were not firefights would not endanger future operations.

So if the general made a mistake then the Pentagon et al are now trying to cover up the mistake. But why bother?

The obvious reason is because the facts would destroy the Hollywood spin they created.

The Pentagon portrayed this event as a daring rescue where the soldiers fought their ways through hordes of evil Iraqis and rescued a soldier.

Now that the other side of the story has been told, the Pentagon has changed its story. Now they don't want to talk about it in hopes that their spin will prevail.

The reasonable conclusion is that this was not a daring Hollywood-style rescue.

	04-06-2003 11:18									#67
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One other thing, the deliberate or accidental spin put on this story distracts from what the special forces did.

These guys carried out a successful operation where no one got killed and they achieved their objective. That is impressive and should be applauded.

They did not know what to expect because they did not know if their intelligence sources were correct so in that sense, this was a daring raid. It just wasn't a Hollywood-style raid.

But that wasn't good enough for the Pentagon. The brass had to put a big spin on it.

	04-06-2003 11:22									#68
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quote: A doctor at the hospital recounted how he told a US officer: `You do realize you could have just knocked on the door and we would have wheeled Jessica down to you, don't you?'

Just how would the soldier "realize" that?

Sava -

quote: The troops in Grenada were going into an unknown situation, yet I don't see any movies about the sacrifice and struggle the US forces faced in Grenada.

Heartbreak Ridge with Clint Eastwood was about Grenada. As I recall, the invasion of Grenada occured days after the barracks attack in Lebanon giving me the impression Reagan was just looking for a way to divert attention from his bungling there. But I don't know if the military can plan and execute an invasion in such short time, but the movie related the confusion of US troops about objectives, maps, etc...

	04-06-2003 12:56									#69
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the pentagon just doesn't want to look stupid. That is why they won't admit they are wrong.

Typical arrogant men. What arrogant man admits he is wrong?

typical behaviour.

there is no vast right-wing conspiracy. give it up.