05-05-2003 16:38									#1
	Best use of The Great Library Increase Your PM Length

The Great Library generally allows you to catch up with other civs tech-wise, but there are several ways to benefit from it.

Do you:

Stop researching the moment you are certain no other civ will beat you to it, and start researching when it expires ?

Stop researching the moment you are certain no other civ will beat you to it, and start researching the Invention-path (to Mil. Tr.) when you get engineering ?

Become the number one tech broker, researching neglected techs and trading them ?

Combine these strategies ?

Do something else ?

Never build it ?

	05-05-2003 18:07									#2
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OK, first reply reply to your post.

I am usually REALLY certain nobody will beat me only when there is one turn left to its completion (bad experiences )

Usually, playing on Monarch, I go for Republic at a steady pace (15 turns), since it seems it's one of last techs researched by the AI and I want to get out of Despotism asap.

In the meantime, I sell techs around to get plenty of cash. Once into the Middle Ages, I usually have 700-1'200 gold, then I beeline first for Gunpowder, via Engineering, then switch for Adam Smith (which for me is the more important Wonder in the Middle Ages).
When playing on archipelago, I often leave a group of civs technically backwards, to milk them at leisure, specially if I plan to grab soome land from them.

Oh, I forgot to mention that my second town goes for the GL immediately, after building a worker.

All the rest is subject to the whims of the game.

	05-05-2003 18:59									#3
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Research Republic at 40turns than for the Mi. Tr. path but at since 30-50%

	05-05-2003 19:20									#4
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quote: I am usually REALLY certain nobody will beat me only when there is one turn left to its completion (bad experiences)

I agree, but you can have a pretty good idea and be willing to gamble! (Establishing embassies at this point will let you have a peek at the other civs' progress, provided they are building it in their capital . The cost of these embassies is outweighed by, say, 10 turns with 90% tax)

	05-05-2003 19:51									#5
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I have NEVER succeeded in building the Great Library. I've tried loads of times and never made it.

So now, I don't bother. It just doesn't first with my style.

	05-05-2003 20:57									#6
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I make sure to aim for the GL, but I can live without it...

the main point of the GL is, in my view, to keep another Civ from having it. That being said, it is useful to let the GL bring you construction, code of laws and philosophy while you're researching currency and monarchy... but that's just my playstyle.

	05-05-2003 21:15									#7
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When I am planing to build the GL, I am researching techs, that are normally not favorized by the AI. I mean, I am not researching and even NOT BUYING bronze, iron making, worrior code etc, but heading for currency. When I am finished with the GL I will get those techs anyway. In the meantime (while building it) I am trying to contact as many as possible civs.

I thing, this strategy is best working with france...

	05-05-2003 21:40									#8
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This strategy works well with everyone I find, especially civs lacking strong domestic traits (i.e., not religious, scientific or commercial)

	05-05-2003 22:38									#9
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I'll go for the mil. trad. as everyone else is researching the other path. Some times I have to go back to that path as well if education is discovered too soon, and this actually often makes me fall a bit behind, but I'll get cavalry first!

	06-05-2003 07:55									#10
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It really depends what level you're playing on. Under Deity, building the Great Library is not at all guaranteed. Playing a commercial civ gets you a fighting chance but you pretty much have to build it in one of your first two cities or you can kiss that dream goodbye.

If I decide to go for the Great Library, I stop research as soon as I get Literature...unless I know I am on an isolated island. If I believe there is any chance for two civs to make contact, I hoard gold and skip the Pottery - Map Making route.

I don't restart research until the Great Library expires with Education. Then, I almost always research Astronomy as a piece of my SSC.

If I fail to get the Great Library, I use the hoarded gold to catch up as best I can. Usually, that will get me within a tech or two if I've done my homework.

Under the middle levels, Emperor and Monarch, building the Great Library is much easier. But, I find that I run out of things to build pretty quickly. Once I get a couple of thousand gold, I restart research following the lower tech path.

- TT

	07-05-2003 03:00									#11
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I would say it depends on the situation. Quite often I stop researching to get cash for rush-building, but I think you have to research to really keep the tech lead and be able to build some of the middle age wonders. I normally rush for military tradition and let the AI research the rest, but theology is also really useful to get first of all and get ahead in the wonder construction.

	07-05-2003 03:27									#12
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The number of civs has a big impact on the GL decision. You need at least two AIs researching for you. In a resent game, I had 3 civs researching very well. I shut down all research, and got 15 techs (Emperor) from the GL.

I usually just shut down the research until very close to the end. Getting all that gold for upgrades and improvements is very smart.

	07-05-2003 08:24									#13
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GL as a offensive weapon...

I always used GL in my emporer level games as a way to keep the enemy A.I. technologicaly backwards. Typicaly, I could deal my way ahead of the A.I. by cocnentrating my economy on gold and expansion, effectivly keeping almost 3 tech lead in front of everyone.

With that pesky GL out of the way, I can make sure those A.I. never reach calvalry befor me, and thus dooming them unless they are lucky enough to get to rifleman befor I invade them.

So the lesson, deprive the A.I. of the GL so that they will never gain a tech lead in front of you.

-ronnie

	07-05-2003 17:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy I have NEVER succeeded in building the Great Library. I've tried loads of times and never made it. So now, I don't bother. It just doesn't first with my style.

Same here, even when I played on Chieftain. Every other wonder I have managed to build at some point except HG ('cos I never proritise it).

Literature is the one tech I will never trade as well - as it never helps me, perhaps I should start selling.

	07-05-2003 19:21									#15
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I don't understand why anyone would prioritize the colossus or the pyramids above the Great Library.

	07-05-2003 22:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I don't understand why anyone would prioritize the colossus or the pyramids above the Great Library.

The Colossus is a much lower investment of shields, is often obtainable easily, and continues to give benefits through virtually the entire game. It also corresponds to three different civ traits making a GA via wonder building easily obtainable.

The Pyramids offer super-charged growth early, provide continued enhanced growth throughout the game, and relieve an empire of substantial ongoing maintenance costs.

The Great Library is a large investment of shields when shields are most valuable - in the early game. On the higher levels, the GL is often not even completed until one nears the end of the ancient age -- the free techs are very nice, but the accumulated cash afforded by the GL has limited uses -- prncipally on unit upgrades. Again on the higher level, maintaining a hoard of cash invites demands and tribute, and, while the GL helps maintain early tech parity, it doesn;t contribute to the longer term objective of building an empire to dominate (militarily, econmically, scientifically) the way the Pyramids do. The benefit is short-lived. I think the GL is more prized by those who are uncomfortable lagging in techs early in the game -- if you come to accept a tech lag early and/or research and trade shrewedly enough to stay close, the GL looses a lot of its mystique.

Don't get me wrong, I like the GL and welcome it, but I'd take the Pyramids over the GL just about any day.

Catt

	07-05-2003 23:34									#17
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Hmmm. Well, you play on higher levels than I do, so I bow to your judgment re: pyramids vs. GL.

Still, I have doubts about a wonder - even the cheapest of which is still an investment that ties down a productive city for a good long time - that increases, potentially, the amount of unhappy people in your empire.

If the luxuries are connected and you've got traits that allow you to slaughter your people for profit, well then, I see it's value... I guess I'll know better when I step up and begin to play Monarch and higher frequently.

	08-05-2003 01:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Hmmm. Well, you play on higher levels than I do, so I bow to your judgment re: pyramids vs. GL.

Difficultly level doesn't necessarily correspond to better judgment on the game or its strategies / tactics, so no need to bow to me or anyone else on that basis.

quote: Still, I have doubts about a wonder - even the cheapest of which is still an investment that ties down a productive city for a good long time - that increases, potentially, the amount of unhappy people in your empire.

But the Pyramids will never increase the amount of unhappy people unless you let it. You can always turn a citizen or citizens into entertainers, taxmen, or scientists if you want to slow or stop growth. With or without the Pyramids, your cities are going to grow to the unhappiness point unless you manage them -- the Pyramids just let you get there faster, reaping the benefits of enhanced production and gold more quickly -- they also facilitate the rapid regrowth of cities following a settler or worker build.

Remember, the Pyramids give you the opportunity to grow more quickly, but they don't demand it. In just about every case I imagine I would use the opportunity, but I can always ignore it if I want to.

Catt

	08-05-2003 01:38									#19
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Well, I do find that when I come to acquire the pyramids, it's easier than ever for me to become a powerhouse...

	08-05-2003 02:15									#20
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Mmmmm... Cavalry...

	09-05-2003 01:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I don't understand why anyone would prioritize the colossus or the pyramids above the Great Library.

Just to add to Catt's remarks- beelining for ancient techs like Monarchy, Currency or Construction can leave Literature a long way off the beaten track, and the AI's sometimes ignore it too. Colossus and Pyramids are available from 1st-level techs, and are both very powerful if exploited.