07-05-2003 18:16									#1
	Has war weariness an influence on fighting troups? Put an end to popups!

Sometimes I get the impression that war weariness, which as far as I know only influences cities, also has a negative influence on the fighting spirit of the my troups?

What I mean is that in the beginning of a war troups are more succesfull. When war weariness start to manifest itself in cities, fighting troups are less succesfull in their fight and I lose more troops than in the beginning.

Is there something known about this subject?

	07-05-2003 18:23									#2
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I could be the other way around. When you start loosing troups war weariness starts to set in. As far as I know there's no effect on the troups directly but troups dying, especially on foreign ground really affects ww.

	07-05-2003 18:35									#3
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Georges Bonbon :

I have never heard of war weariness entering the formula of combat. I have also never noticed more or less prowess from the troops depending on war weariness. I don't think war weariness has any impact on your combat prowess.

It is possible you have noticed better combat performance at the beginning of a war (when war weariness isn't a problem) because you have many troops that can win battles despite high losses. Later in the war, when avoiding losses is more of an issue, you might have noticed military defeats more than before, hence thinking your troops fight worse.

	07-05-2003 20:35									#4
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don't think there is any correlation between your troops ability to fight and weariness.

would be nice if there was that kind of inbuilt bias - would get the AI to stop fighting once in a while.

	07-05-2003 21:14									#5
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I think this is well worth getting the true answer to.

	08-05-2003 16:03									#6
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Consider this: When on invasion, your troops face the defenders in the smaller border cities first, with smaller defence plusses. Advancing to the core of the empire, cities are bigger, adding bonus to the defender, better defended (how does AI position it's troops? better one's to the core?) and so on. Also, the AI might get his act together, his troops positioned better, (infrastructure, railroads help in this) it's bombers to place etc. Results: more casualties for the good guys.

	08-05-2003 16:11									#7
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no

	08-05-2003 17:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun Consider this: When on invasion, your troops face the defenders in the smaller border cities first, with smaller defence plusses. Advancing to the core of the empire, cities are bigger, adding bonus to the defender, better defended (how does AI position it's troops? better one's to the core?) and so on. Also, the AI might get his act together, his troops positioned better, (infrastructure, railroads help in this) it's bombers to place etc. Results: more casualties for the good guys.

I even have the impression that artillery pieces are firing less successful when war weariness sets in.

I know a lot has been discussed about the working and efficiency of artillery, but still my impression remains the same.

	08-05-2003 20:00									#9
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I'm with you re: artillery. I still don't get it. You seem to have to build two artillery pieces for every 1 defender you're up against for artillery to make a big diff. And that's a lot of production expenditure, when you could be making units that can capture instead.

I like having them around to defend cities, however.

	08-05-2003 22:51									#10
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No. It's your imagination seeing trends that aren't there.

	09-05-2003 06:54									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Vlado I could be the other way around. When you start loosing troups war weariness starts to set in. As far as I know there's no effect on the troups directly but troups dying, especially on foreign ground really affects ww.

IIRC there is a correlation between the amount of units you loose and the severity of WW.
If you stop fighting for several turns (distant enemy for example) WW will go down to a lower level.

	09-05-2003 08:37									#12
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Starting many wars and ending one from time to time sometimes works to improve WW for a few turns. It's kinda cheaty and lame, but is nonetheless a good way to gain a few more turns of "lucrative" war.

At least I observed something like this a few times. But that's... just me.

	09-05-2003 10:26									#13
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no, no correlation with troops in the field, only on homefront

	21-05-2003 16:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel no, no correlation with troops in the field, only on homefront

I just cannot believe it.

I just played a game with long-lasting war in which:

- my Stealth-bombers were being shot down at a rate of of 5 out 35,

- my artillery was shooting at a rate 1 out of 10 succesfully

- modern armour (elite) lost several times to infantry (regular or veteran) in cities (size 1-5)

and all that in just one round.

At the start of that round (government republic) unhapiness due to war weariness rose.

So this was just bad luck?

	21-05-2003 16:34									#15
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Just bad luck, some other time you may get real lucky.

War Weariness does not affect combat, but combat affects WW.

High losses will increase WW, as will your troops in enemy territory and enemy troops in your territory.

You have one 'WW-account' with each civ. Total WW is the sum of these, when you make peace that account goes inactive but it's still ther so WW will jump right back if a new war breaks out.

	21-05-2003 16:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Just bad luck, some other time you may get real lucky. War Weariness does not affect combat, but combat affects WW. High losses will increase WW, as will your troops in enemy territory and enemy troops in your territory. You have one 'WW-account' with each civ. Total WW is the sum of these, when you make peace that account goes inactive but it's still ther so WW will jump right back if a new war breaks out.

Well then I always must have bad luck after long wars.

Just unbelievable.

I do not say it is war weariness but there must some other parameter that influences the fighting spirit of troops.

	21-05-2003 16:39									#17
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There is no fighting spirit of the troops calculation in civ3 other than the experiance levels

	21-05-2003 16:50									#18
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georges bonbon, what level do you play on?

Statistically speaking there have to be at least ONE person who always have bad luck in civ3 combat. Maybe you are the one

Seriously though, maybe you're not using your units to their full potential? I know that my losses go sky-high if my thoughts go too far away from the game. Have you ever played while drunk? I have, that sets my skill back at least one level.

	21-05-2003 17:02									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I'm with you re: artillery. I still don't get it. You seem to have to build two artillery pieces for every 1 defender you're up against for artillery to make a big diff. And that's a lot of production expenditure, when you could be making units that can capture instead.

The key to artillery is that they are around forever! Have just one or two cities making catapults from when you get Mathematics, upgrade them all to Cannon when you get Metallurgy, upgrade them all to Artillery when you get Replaceable Parts... just from those one or two cities' production you will have a devastating bombard force.

Guard them even more heavily than you guard your cities!

	21-05-2003 17:10									#20
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quote: Originally posted by bongo georges bonbon, what level do you play on? Statistically speaking there have to be at least ONE person who always have bad luck in civ3 combat. Maybe you are the one Seriously though, maybe you're not using your units to their full potential? I know that my losses go sky-high if my thoughts go too far away from the game. Have you ever played while drunk? I have, that sets my skill back at least one level.

This game was on monarchy, but I have had similar experiences on Emperor level. As for deity, well I am still a human.

I was not drunk or I would have been dead, the game lasted for 56 hours (I played on a huge map).

	21-05-2003 17:28									#21
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AFAIR I did not experienced such correlation.
I am just finishing a war against Bismarck (I have conquered about 90% of its cities). I have not noticed any performance's decrease of my MAs, but WW has not stopped rising during the 18 turns of this war.