08-05-2003 11:05									#1
	Turn 52 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching map making at 100%
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 51 gold cash, -1 gpt

Urgent questions & tasks:
FAM: Negotiations with CFC for the wheel?
FAM: Trying to speak to GCA about the CDG's iron.
MoL: Need name for worker 4.
MoL: Need name for city 4 (Incensity).
decorators: We have a Palace improvement coming to us. What d'ya say, can we upgrade the cave?

Unit movement & actions:
N1 'MerZenary' to move 2 (S)
N2 'Mao' to move 6 (W), onto road
W2 'BigFree' to fortify. Waiting for GCA to scream :Plugs ears:
W3 'Alva' to move 4 hunting barbs??
W4 'Theseus' to move 4 (W) along with WB
W5 'BFW' to move ??
W6 'Hagbart' waiting to see if W4 is threatened.
W7 'WhiteBandit' to move 4 (W) along with Theseus
W8 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton


Economy:
Apolyton building settler.
Mingapulco building NumMerc. Change to Barracks pending situation
Banatopia building granary. Change to Barracks pending situation
Incensity building warrior. Can be switched to barracks, but a few more sword upgrades might be good.

WF:
Apolyton 1, 3, 33. **new
Mingapulco 6, 6 9. **new
Bananatopia 9. nc
Incensity 2. nc

** this assumes that max growth at Mingapulco over Bananatopia is desirable given the possibility of war with CDG??

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' continues mine (2)
Worker2 'Monkee' continues road (1)
Worker3 'panag' continues road (1)
Worker4 "???" continues road (4)

Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP expired?
CFC: Negotiating...
GCA: NAP in effect (fm Turn 29).

Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.
---

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results.

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	08-05-2003 11:34									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

OUCH! These reports are getting bigger and bigger....

I don't begrudge you one bit for having to create these nye.

Good job btw.

If the CDG Warrior hangs on the Iron lets put an Archer in Apolytons que immediatley to deal with him before his buddies can arrive. Because if he stays there, there will be friends of his coming also.

	08-05-2003 11:51									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Any friends have to come through the screen. I don't see any. Most likely he is hunting barbs, like us.

	08-05-2003 12:12									#4
	Suffering from ads?

We'll see.....

However, I sure do hope that you are right.

	08-05-2003 13:05									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

We'll find out next turn.

I suggest that W5 BFW goes exploring a bit (along the coast).

	08-05-2003 23:36									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Just time for (another) quick note:

We should explicitly ask CDG if they're planning to attack us, something like: "we have such and such evidence that you're planning a strike against us, please declare your intentions".

If they do want to destroy us, they will probably deny everything. But if we let them know we know what they're up to, they'll surely think twice. They may even take more time to prepare (to our advantage). We may even be in for a surprise: CDG does not know whom to attack, and is just "doing the Persian thing" by building up Immortals and scaring the crap out of their neighbors. In this case our direct approach could even serve to bring us closer together (this has happened in some PBEM games I'm involved in). Just because we think they're preparing an assault on us does not mean we should maintain "radio silence". Quite the contrary.

Some other points:

1. As nye said, there is a diplomatic battle going on right now...let's fight it! We seem to be putting a lot more effort into our military plans than our diplomatic ones. Why is the default always military initiative?

2. The Granary in Bananatopia will pay off, if only we give it time. Production there should not be switched preemptively.

3. Fried-Psitalon, somewhere else you referred to my comment about "internet MP" players/games. I must state again that this was not meant as an insult. What you seem to have taken from this is that I do not support warmongering, and that PBEM games are by nature slower and more peaceful. This is not true. I was simply stating what I consider to be a fact about non-PBEM MP play, namely that it is all about warmongering. Your own threads on the topic only confirm my belief. I do not consider this an "optimal" way of playing, since sooo much can be done on the diplomatic front when your opponents are humans. Look again at the map of this game, and tell me that our best chance at success does not lie in peaceful building (if this were possible to achieve diplomatically). Warmongering is simply not a panacea, especially when other teams are cooperating while we're blasting ourselves into sub-optimality. In this game, diplomacy is accepted and welcome; let's use it.

4. CDG does look like they're getting ready to attack us. Which is why I'm happy at the developments while I've been away (Barracks, etc.). However, I believe that a defensive war is what we would be most successful at; denying their Iron and other such preemptive strikes would cost us a lot and would probably fail, IMO (plus, they leave no chance at a peaceful "solution", which I'm still hoping for).

Ok, I've writtent more than I thought I would, and so I stop.


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 08-05-2003 at 23:45

	09-05-2003 06:14									#7
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Dominae is correct, we still have options to explore. So lets get cracking.

E_T

	09-05-2003 06:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae 3. Fried-Psitalon, somewhere else you referred to my comment about "internet MP" players/games. I must state again that this was not meant as an insult. What you seem to have taken from this is that I do not support warmongering, and that PBEM games are by nature slower and more peaceful. This is not true. I was simply stating what I consider to be a fact about non-PBEM MP play, namely that it is all about warmongering. Your own threads on the topic only confirm my belief. I do not consider this an "optimal" way of playing, since sooo much can be done on the diplomatic front when your opponents are humans. Look again at the map of this game, and tell me that our best chance at success does not lie in peaceful building (if this were possible to achieve diplomatically). Warmongering is simply not a panacea, especially when other teams are cooperating while we're blasting ourselves into sub-optimality. In this game, diplomacy is accepted and welcome; let's use it. 4. CDG does look like they're getting ready to attack us. Which is why I'm happy at the developments while I've been away (Barracks, etc.). However, I believe that a defensive war is what we would be most successful at; denying their Iron and other such preemptive strikes would cost us a lot and would probably fail, IMO (plus, they leave no chance at a peaceful "solution", which I'm still hoping for). Dominae

In PBEM, it is so easy to negotiate an aliance against the superpowers or the most aggresive teams. There is so much time between turns, an enemy can become an allie so quickly.
This is why diplomacy rules in PBEM.
Go for a peaceful solution until we are ready for our "guaranteed to win" offensive.

	09-05-2003 18:52									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

OK, 1725BC savegame received from CGN.

The only notable (however quite notable) thing is that CDG Warrior Morris fortified on "our" iron hill.

	09-05-2003 19:41									#10
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Well, after reviewing the situation and plans for this turn, I am going to wait for others to show up in the chatroom or comment here (should not take long).

I need to know:

1) do we offer "unaccepted" Wheel to CFC this turn?
2) do we move W5 'BFW' SE (3)?
3) do we move W3 'Alva' E (6) or W (4)?

and:

I suggest arranging the WF as follows:

Apolyton: 11, 3, 33
Mingapulco: 6, 99
Bananatopia: 77
Incensity: 2

The reason is that we need 11 more shields in Poly to finish the settler - we would make 5 this turn and thanks to the pop growth, we would make 6 on the next turn - the coastal grassland Dan will finish mining on the next turn would be autoworked, I believe, bringing 1 extra shield in. This would allow Mingapulco work its 99 (fully improved bonus grassland), increasing the shield output there by 1.

This also suggests we use the game to speed up the pop growth in Bananatopia for two turns. That's fine, I think, as we will grow there before finishing the granary anyway, so the sooner the better.

Comment, please.

	09-05-2003 20:45									#11
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As for the Labour Party:

notation: ExtraFood - Shields (gross/net) - Commerce (gross/net)

a) Ming uses the Game tile:

Poly +2 - 6/6 - 6/6
Ming +3 - 4/3 - 3/3
Ban +2 - 3/3 - 4/3

Tot +7 - 12 - 12

b) Banana uses the Game tile:

Poly +2 - 5/5* - 5/5
Ming +2 - 5/4 - 3/3
Ban +3 - 2/2 - 3/3

Tot +7 - 11 - 11

* Poly only needs 5 this turn.

So, it's better that Ming use the Game tile for two turns.

	09-05-2003 21:13									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, BFM is right - there is one more thing to consider, though. Poly will not be able to use all 6 shields on the following turn, actually wasting 2 of them... (1 out of those 6 + 1 from the newly autoworked tile)

Which makes the question as follows: do we prefer producing two more shields or two more commerce?

	09-05-2003 21:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack OK, 1725BC savegame received from CGN. The only notable (however quite notable) thing is that CDG Warrior Morris fortified on "our" iron hill.

Oh no they didn't...

	09-05-2003 22:38									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Trip: We'll be in contact with them this turn (to negotiate a non aggression pact !) so we can ask them to leave. Their reaction will reveal their intentions.

Vondrack: What are you suggesting? To work a different tile?

	09-05-2003 22:52									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Vondrack: What are you suggesting? To work a different tile?

As posted earlier:

quote: Apolyton: 11, 3, 33 Mingapulco: 6, 99 Bananatopia: 77 Incensity: 2

Which is essentially your "b)" - it looks a bit "worse" this turn, but evens out (or: transforms into the "gold or shields" question) considering the next turn, too.

	10-05-2003 01:12									#17
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Change the granary to barracks. Keep building the Merc. If they are seriously attempting to block us from the iron we have to assume that they have a few immortals to back it up.

Regarding CDG diplomacy. Try to get a reasonable NAP. If they wont and they wont move their warrior we will have to prepare for war.

	10-05-2003 01:30									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

V: I'm actually suggesting we get as much commerce as possible, because it won't matter in the shields department.