09-05-2003 13:29									#1
	Comparison fight US Apolyton vs. German league. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In my opinion you Americans at Apolyton are strong on 2x2xking, but have however deficits in 1x1xdeity. But you donīt want to realize that. I suggest therefore the following: We make a comparison fight. 5 of your players play duels against 5 of our players. The duels are to take place on a premade, fair map. The map could make one the Australian or Englishman (Alexanders Horse?). Also with Dr. spike I would agree, if he does not wanna play for himself. Thus we could clarify this thing. Whatīs your opinion?

	09-05-2003 17:15									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I would really like to know where people get the idea that we play 2x2x king. Most of the americans that post here very very rarely play it. All our group plays is 2x1x deity. Duels are not that popular, and we don't usually play on premade maps. If you're looking to play EYES AND STRAT who do, good luck.

	09-05-2003 17:18									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Aussie group usually plays 1x1x deity

	09-05-2003 17:22									#4
	Suffering from ads?

War4ever plays 1x1x Deity... but I'm not sure who else in our group likes to

	09-05-2003 17:57									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I will say that I've played many more 1x1x deity games then 2x2x king. (which is easy since I've only played 2x2x king maybe twice)

	09-05-2003 18:04									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I would say the same... I'm not a big fan of games at lower than Deity settings... And I can't stand what 2x movement does to combat... Cats that can land off a ship and attack on the same turn just seems SOOOOOOO unrealistic

	09-05-2003 18:08									#7
	Got spare money?

Yes, both 2x2x king games that I remember where when I was asked to sub after the start of a game. I was obviously subbing for someone that got an awlful start and quit. In one of them, I laughed when I saw what I had but said what the heck, let's see how it goes. 4 turns, in 8 elephants charge from the black and my only two cities went down in flames. That was FUN.

RAH

	09-05-2003 18:50									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i love x1x1 ...but i play x2x1 with "the twins" b/c they make the games enjoyable and i do have limited time.
if i could freely play and sway the vote, my vote would be for x1.....

the german league has many good players

but i think more appropriate title should be, german league vs zone....b/c that is where the x2x2 crowd comes from origionaly

	09-05-2003 19:06									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have limited time, too.
Couldnīt you find 4 other guys to play against us?

	09-05-2003 21:22									#10
	Re: Comparison fight US Apolyton vs. German league. Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Cobra In my opinion you Americans at Apolyton are strong on 2x2xking, but have however deficits in 1x1xdeity. But you donīt want to realize that. I suggest therefore the following: We make a comparison fight. 5 of your players play duels against 5 of our players. The duels are to take place on a premade, fair map. The map could make one the Australian or Englishman (Alexanders Horse?). Also with Dr. spike I would agree, if he does not wanna play for himself. Thus we could clarify this thing. Whatīs your opinion?

As a European who usualy plays on civmad this was not directed at me but anyway:

There are not that much 2x2x king players here, we usualy hang out in civmad since they killed the zone

And of all players I know who play 2x2x king only Sean claims to rule on 1x1x Deity, witch he 'kinda' proved when this thing last arose, The duel against Odeo.
(Although with a start with spice and Peat on a river it is hard to loose )

Most 2x2xking players rather go outside to watch the grass grow then to play 1x1x Deity, I play some but only in the saturday morning diplo

Anyway,1x1x Deity would fairly easy be won by you guys, and since your best player Woke usualy gets his ass kicked these days playing 2x2x king this doesnt seems to be a challenge.

Why dont we make it interesting and play a teamgame 3v3, 2x1x Emp, zone against german liga?

	09-05-2003 21:24									#11
	Re: Comparison fight US Apolyton vs. German league. Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ming And I can't stand what 2x movement does to combat... Cats that can land off a ship and attack on the same turn just seems SOOOOOOO unrealistic

Well there must be some compensation for the easy defending on mountains in 2x production dont you think?

	09-05-2003 21:33									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If time(zones) weren't such a prob, i would gladly play my european rivals in x1.....the way the game was meant to be played

	09-05-2003 21:35									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

hmmm it would be interesting to see if we are now stronger than the americans. When I started playing mp 2 years ago, I got the best hints from this forum. But the gameplay changed much during the time in Germany. It is now a very agressive game, duells with 1x1x diety on a medium map without citybribe is the most popular setting now. The warheads became the strongest players.
I look forward to see if you guys can handle our strategies.

Last edited by max69 on 09-05-2003 at 21:44

	10-05-2003 00:12									#14
	Remove this text

*Sigh* what strategies are there for 1 x deity??
Wait, I have one, staying awake...
you Germans would be owned by me in 2 x 2 king. I have evolved to unbeatable status on a premade boards. Flight by 800 bc in my latest game with martin and all his poor clads caught by surprise first by my sub infested coast and then by my gigantic airforce.
Ming just shows how limited his idea of this game is talking about catapults moving 2. Hogwash! I am now playing with subs, tanks, marines, fighters and massed fanatics with tons of engineers to fort and build RR's!
If you Germans who think they have advanced past us pathetic American Civ players, step into my world and get a free education.

	10-05-2003 00:50									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by StrategicKingMi Ming just shows how limited his idea of this game is talking about catapults moving 2.

And you show how limited your overall thinking is by not realizing that was just an example

I see nothing has changed... SK and his typical Blah blah post on how he's the greatest. Not willing to play on other settings because his one trick pony strategy doesn't work on them... degrading people that don't play his settings... nothing new here

	10-05-2003 01:01									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

war only is viable when opponents are close, otherwise trade and expansion will always pay off...

	10-05-2003 01:10									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So true... SK will only play on premade boards where he can build without anybody near by to upset his one trick pony show... Heaven forbid somebody should attack him early

	10-05-2003 01:14									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't they even agree no wars until a certain date, and have no barbs. Yep, that adds to the skill required.

	10-05-2003 01:23									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Nahhh... but he will just claim that it's all luck, and luck shouldn't have anything to do with it...

More like afraid to deal with any early combat that might disrupt his one trick pony strategy

	10-05-2003 02:44									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i dont' understand the no war thing....this game is partly based on war....deal with it, just like the raging barbs

	10-05-2003 02:45									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ah, the twins who play nothing but 2x1x deity on a tiny map are accusing other people of being one trick pony's again.



What was that again, build all your border city's on mountains and hills, put a couple of vet pike's in and you can just drink your beers and dont worry about war?

Off course on your maps naval warfare is out of the question so thats another worry gone.

And with limited space=city's who needs wonders?

And off course raging makes sure you dont have the choice of defending your city's, leaving even less space for different strats.

Come on people, you're just as bad so tone down a bit.

	10-05-2003 02:47									#22
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The difference... we never start it... and we do play other settings... (I played 1x1x earlier this week) SK never passes up an opportunity to post with the sole purpose of demeaning other people, the settings they use and announcing his own greatness. And everytime he does, you can count on us to have some fun with him

How many times do we have to listen to "only his settings require strategy" and none other do

	10-05-2003 02:48									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

actually, vet cats take out the mountain ciites which happens all the time in our games...

also we don't just build on mountains for defence, we take the time to make river forests..

as for no naval combat etc...thats not true, many small maps have lots of fun sea to go to..which is why we go there to find more land to settle, huts to steal etc

	10-05-2003 02:52									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ming The difference... we never start it... and we do play other settings... (I played 1x1x earlier this week) SK never passes up an opportunity to post with the sole purpose of demeaning other people, the settings they use and announcing his own greatness. And everytime he does, you can count on us to have some fun with him How many times do we have to listen to "only his settings require strategy" and none other do

A valid point, you never start it, but I was refering to the one trick pony comment witch I believe to be untrue.

And I thought strate only posted here to troll witch is obviously working well again

	10-05-2003 02:59									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by War4ever actually, vet cats take out the mountain ciites which happens all the time in our games...

With a good infrastructure and some vet cats yourself your opponent wont get the chance to attack with them unless he can move up a river and build forts.

quote: also we don't just build on mountains for defence, we take the time to make river forests..

See my above point, I'd rather build on the mountain.

quote: as for no naval combat etc...thats not true, many small maps have lots of fun sea to go to..which is why we go there to find more land to settle, huts to steal etc

Ok, I was talking about the open sea naval warfare you have on a 50x60+ map with islands.

	10-05-2003 03:00									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, Atawa, you are correct, we do play limited settings. I'll play other ones sometimes, but it's not as much fun. I won't argue some of your critisisms. I agree with a few and disagree with others. Actually our naval battles are quite intense since we're on top of each other. We play for fun. Different strokes for different strokes.

BUT the big difference here, is that you've never seen me post that I claim I'm the best or that the my settings are the only way or you just suck. As long as the people I'm playing respect my abilities, I'm a happy camper. For those that don't play with us, I could really give a rat's ass what they think of my ability. Not that I don't have any ego, it's just not worth arguing with 16 year olds about it.

RAH
And yes, you are one of the people who's opinion I usually respect.

	10-05-2003 03:19									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by rah We play for fun. Different strokes for different strokes.

Couldnt agree more

quote: BUT the big difference here, is that you've never seen me post that I claim I'm the best or that the my settings are the only way or you just suck. As long as the people I'm playing respect my abilities, I'm a happy camper. For those that don't play with us, I could really give a rat's ass what they think of my ability. Not that I don't have any ego, it's just not worth arguing with 16 year olds about it.

A little bragging always enhances gameplay imo, but this is just another troll by strate witch worked well.
To be honest though, I know nobody who CAN beat strate on this setting, so claiming to be the best is kinda justified untill someone proves him wrong, even eyes didnt dear to challenge him on this...
But for me the true masters of the game are people that play and are good on every setting

quote: And yes, you are one of the people who's opinion I usually respect.

Same here.

	10-05-2003 10:07									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Didnt mean to be as abrasive as that last post sounded.
Given a chance to "restrate" it, i meant to say
1) I am the greatest civ player in the world today, that much is obvious..
2) but rather than an insult Ming, I meant that the game does not start being strategic and fun till you get flight.
And I find the only way to get there on a smaller board is to prevent early war so that you can get wonders built. Many citys. And many units to fight a "strategic war" rather then tactical small scale battles with very few units. The more decisions you have to make, the more different paths to take, the more strategic the game is and the greater the difference between the two players in a duel.
Now, in our latest game, Martin played very well, but I took the game to an entirely new level. I did 2 techs a turn 6 different turns including darwins and phil. This lead to a large Martin ironclad force stunbling right into an equal number of subs which, of course he could not see unless he actually ran right into them and *poof* there goes that fleet to the bottom of the ocean. Then i got flight, and now any ships in ports in range of fighters are dead meat (unless of course, they have fighter protection themselves)
And as far as me being "a one pony show", this is not true at all, I have played more ways then anyone else.
Me and jail boy bud, stayed up many a night playing anything from 4 x 4 to all techs at start of game and multiple settler starts. You want to attack early, Ill point to my game league days, i can do that also.
The problem is, been there, done that. These types of games get boring because they never ever will get past a certain point.

	10-05-2003 10:22									#29
	Support Apolyton

(36 years old, by the way, thanks to all the apolytoners who sent me a birthday greating, that was cool---
I just act like a 16 year old)
I dont insult others here, I just expound my own greatness.
I do insult 1 x 1 deity because i am right, it is very restrictive. ( i actually prefer 4 x 1 king if truth be told )

	10-05-2003 11:55									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So many words and nothing said so far.....