Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Push for legalization of psychedelics... what a trip!
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 17:42
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Push for legalization of psychedelics... what a trip! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Tripping De-Light Fantastic
Are psychedelic drugs good for you?
By John Horgan
Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 8:44 AM PT



A year ago, hoping to dispel the postpartum gloom that had gripped me after I finished writing a book, I hiked into a forest near my home and pitched a tent under some pine trees. I spent that day and evening listening to the forest, scribbling in my journal, and thinking—all while under the influence of a psychedelic drug. The next morning I returned to my wife and children feeling better than I had in months.

What I did that day should not be illegal. Adults seeking solace or insight ought to be allowed to consume psychedelics such as LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline. U.S. laws now classify them as Schedule 1 drugs, banned for all purposes because of their health risks. But recent studies have shown that psychedelics—which more than 20 million Americans have ingested—can be harmless and even beneficial when taken under appropriate circumstances.

Citing this research, some scholars and scientists are proposing that the prohibitions against psychedelics—or entheogens, "God engenderers," as believers in their spiritual benefits prefer to call them—should be reconsidered. This legal issue has recently been brought to a head by a religious sect in New Mexico that is suing the United States for the right to drink a hallucinogenic tea called ayahuasca in its ceremonies. A federal court is expected to rule on the potentially momentous case any day now.

"There is no doubt that hallucinogens can be used unwisely," says Charles Grob, a psychiatrist at the UCLA-Harbor Medical Center, who testified in the ayahuasca case and is a leader of the effort to rehabilitate the reputation of these substances. "But these studies show that they can be used safely within certain parameters."


After LSD's astonishing effects were discovered by the Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann 60 years ago, many psychiatrists considered it and similar compounds potential treatments for psychological ailments. That is why the psychiatrist Humphrey Osmond called the drugs "psychedelic," from the Greek root for "mind-revealing." By the mid-1960s, medical journals had published more than 1,000 papers describing the treatment with psychedelics of some 40,000 patients afflicted with disorders ranging from schizophrenia to alcoholism.

One remarkable study from this period, known as the Good Friday experiment, probed the capacity of psilocybin (the active ingredient of so-called magic mushrooms) to trigger spiritual experiences. On Good Friday, 1962, the Harvard psychiatrist Walter Pahnke dispensed psilocybin and placebos to a group of 30 divinity students and professors assembled in a Boston church. A majority of those who received psilocybin reported sensations of profound awe and self-transcendence that had lasting positive effects.

By the early 1970s, the surging popularity of psychedelics among the young—urged by Timothy Leary to "turn on, tune in, and drop out"—had triggered a backlash. Psychedelics were outlawed, and virtually all research on them was shut down amid rising concerns about their adverse social and medical effects. In 1971, the Journal of the American Medical Association warned that repeated consumption of psychedelics would usually result in permanent "personality deterioration."

Further research has shown these fears to be exaggerated, says John Halpern, a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School. To be sure, psychedelics can cause acute and sometimes persistent psychopathology, especially in those predisposed to mental illness. But Halpern maintains that these compounds are usually harmless when ingested by healthy individuals in appropriate settings.

As evidence, Halpern cites a five-year study he recently completed with a Harvard colleague of members of the Native American Church, who are permitted by U.S. law to consume the mescaline-containing cactus peyote as a sacrament. Church members who had taken peyote at least 100 times showed no adverse neurocognitive effects compared to a control group.

Similar results have emerged from a study of ayahuasca by UCLA psychiatrist Grob and other scientists, results that Grob describes in the essay collection Hallucinogens. Ayahuasca, a tea brewed from two Amazonian plants, contains the potent psychedelic dimethyltryptamine, or DMT. Although the tea often triggers nausea and diarrhea, Indian shamans have prized it for its visionary properties for centuries, and since 1987 it has served as a legal sacrament for several churches in Brazil. The largest is the Uniao Do Vegetal, or UDV, which combines elements of Christianity with nature worship and claims 8,000 members.

Grob and his colleagues found that UDV members were on average healthier physiologically and psychologically than a control group. The UDV adherents also had elevated receptors for the neurotransmitter serotonin, which has been correlated with resistance to depression and other disorders. Many of the UDV members told the scientists that ayahuasca had helped them overcome alcoholism, drug addiction, and other self-destructive behaviors.

These findings emboldened UDV adherents based in New Mexico to sue the U.S. Justice Department for the right to drink their sacrament. The case dates to 1999, when federal agents seized 30 gallons of ayahuasca that the UDV group had imported from Brazil. Last August, a federal judge in Albuquerque ruled in favor of the UDV worshippers. The judge contended that the Justice Department had not shown that ayahuasca poses enough of a health risk to warrant restricting the UDV members' right to practice their religion. The Justice Department lawyers appealed, and the case is now before the 10th Circuit Court in Denver.

Of course, even advocates of entheogens admit that they pose risks. Ayahuasca can cause cardiac irregularities and other dangerous side effects, Grob notes, when combined with amphetamines, antidepressants, cheese, red wine, and other common substances. Ayahuasca drinkers generally fast before sessions to reduce the risks of these side effects.

In the new book The Antipodes of the Mind, an in-depth study of ayahuasca visions, the Israeli psychologist Benny Shanon recalls that the tea transformed him from a "devout atheist" into someone awestruck by the wonders of nature and of human consciousness. But he warns that ayahuasca can also be "the worst of liars," leaving some users gripped by belief in ghosts, telepathy, and other occult phenomena. Similarly, in Cleansing the Doors of Perception, the eminent religious scholar Huston Smith recalls that during the Good Friday experiment, in which he participated, one subject became so agitated that he had to be injected with Thorazine. Smith nonetheless contends that entheogens can serve a spiritual purpose, if used with reverence; after all, mind-altering substances have played an inspirational role in many religions, including Hinduism and the Eleusinian cult of ancient Greece.

I have firsthand experience of the double-edged nature of entheogens, which I've taken sporadically since my late teens. There have been moments of vertiginous anxiety; one particularly bad trip in 1981 left me with unsettling flashbacks for months. But overall the pros have outweighed the cons. I usually end up feeling the way I did after my LSD sojourn last summer: existentially refreshed, with a renewed appreciation of ordinary existence.

Entheogens are far less addictive and toxic than alcohol or tobacco. Why should we continue to be denied their benefits, in religious or non-religious contexts? Risks could be minimized by making these substances available only through licensed therapists, who can screen clients for mental instability and advise them on how to make their experiences as rewarding as possible. Some people might be prescribed entheogens for a specific disorder, such as depression or alcoholism. And just as drugs such as Prozac and Viagra are prescribed not just to heal the ill but also to enhance the lives of the healthy, so might entheogens.

This scenario may not be so far-fetched, given last year's court decision favoring the UDV in New Mexico and other developments. A sanctioned study of psilocybin's capacity for treating obsessive-compulsive disorder is now under way at the University of Arizona. And UCLA psychiatrist Grob recently received FDA approval to investigate whether psilocybin can relieve anxiety in late-stage cancer patients. Maybe those of us who enjoy an occasional psychedelic sojourn will be able to do so without feeling like outlaws. Wouldn't that be a trip?

from http://slate.msn.com/id/2082647/??PS=8313

wow! I've never taken any of these substances before as I've been indoctrinated with most anti-drug messages. This is a very interesting article. I'm for legalization in general, but if this study turns out to be true, I think we should investigate and re-examine our archaic drug laws. After learning the circumstances leading to the banning of these substances, I'm starting to get a better idea about the history of such prohibition. Most, if not all, prohibitive drug laws seem to be a backlash aimed at a certain segment of the population which enjoys them. The marijuana ban came about because a racist Texas Congressman wanted to criminalize something that would allow Texas law enforcement to lock up Mexican immigrants along the Rio Grande.

I still would be wary of taking such substances, but at least the medical community would be allowed to do research and find out the truth about these "boogeyman" substances.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 17:59 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

Stay high dude...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 18:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nah, I haven't smoked in close to a year now. Perhaps that's why I'm such an 4sshole.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 21:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

yes, legalize it.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 23:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

I think the hundreds of thousands with permanent HPPD scarring would totally disagree.

There living out there trips 24:7/365. And they regret ever touching anything mind altering

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 23:28
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

FG: abuse of anything f*cks you up

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 23:38 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

Keep it illegal. And then adopt Singaporean methods to deal with the drug problem.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 10-05-2003 23:40
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Abuse?? Perhaps you should look up the subject before you speak man.

Most people only took the offending drug once.

Oh and people can function with HPPD. Its just a constant trips with there eyes. One guy in a 1981 who took 2 LSD when he was younger complained of permanent "Fuzzy eyes with tracers", Spinning geometric shapes, His wife turning into a roach, and a shadowy portal opening up in the sky. I watched the other night on Discovery.

He is perfectly normal and has a good paying job. But lives with this condition on a daily basis. He hadnt taken LSD in 15 years. Othe rpeople never took LSD, they did other pysh's. Including some well known SSRI's

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Fez, maybe you should take some LSD, you won't be such as @ss.

Anyway, I'm all for legalization.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

FD - well it was his choice. Laws which protect people from themselves should be abolished.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:24
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If Fez took some acid, it would probably make him normal.

Personally, I think a normal, kind, courteous Fez is scarier than the one we have now. Sort of like Cartman from the Bizarro world in South park.

Frogman is offline Frogman
Chieftain
NC
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:29
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My roommate in college still saw tracers from taking LSD and he had a good friend who overdosed and is basically a vegetable in a mental institution. The problem with LSD is that you take so little and it effects you so much. Its just too easy to OD. If there was a safer more dilute way to take it, it sounds pretty cool, but the risks are real and they are scary.

This is not like pot. You just about can't OD on pot and the health risks are long term. The health risks of LSD are immediate and deadly. As much as I'd like to see pot legalized, I think we'd have to be a little more careful about hallucinagins.

I've some books by Carlos Castenada and the whole indian peyote thing is pretty interesting. If I felt it was safe I'd even like to do it. If only we didn't have to legislate to the lowest common denominator of the masses, but legal LSD would have some serious social consequences.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

People will learn, and make informed choices about the costs and benefits of taking LSD and peyote.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
The problem with LSD is that you take so little and it effects you so much.



The other problem is all the additives and preservatives thrown into it too, like strychnine (yummy). I had the same experience with tracers when I experimented with it in college.

I think LSD is so potent, and does so many different things to different people, it will never have a viable therapeutic use. It might be different for the other psychedelics that seem, IMO, milder in comparison, like psilo. mushrooms.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 00:57 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Fez, maybe you should take some LSD, you won't be such as @ss.

Anyway, I'm all for legalization.


Who needs drugs when you can have a relationship with plenty of sex? I mean that is stimulating enough for me!

Drugs suck. I want to see drug dealers shot.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 01:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Fez


Who needs drugs when you can have a relationship with plenty of sex? I mean that is stimulating enough for me!

Drugs suck. I want to see drug dealers shot.


(applause (on both counts ))

Also, it turned that Israeli guy from an atheist into a believer. It's WAY too dangerous

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 01:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

Glad you seem to all agree about LSD and all. Shrooms have the same effect. I took shrooms when I was younger, they tasted so ****in awful. The taste alone was enough to justify never using them again...and the High was crap. Weed was the only drug I used on a daily basis.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 01:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

Fez, why do you post here? I mean. Do you ever read your posts? They sound really dumb

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 01:24 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
Fez, why do you post here? I mean. Do you ever read your posts? They sound really dumb


I am just stating something that is an alternative in taking artificial stimulants.

A good relationship with plenty of sex.. is that a problem for you? Well for me it isn't. I have a relationship. And I would never touch drugs. Personally I never want to see illicit drugs on the street or anywhere. I want to see the Singaporean method adopted all over the world. They are doing it in Thailand, launching a massive operation. Thousands upon thousands got arrested and face stiff sentences... most of the time life or death.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 02:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Ok...there Dr. Phil

You probably dont know the first thing about sex.I have had sex countless times with many girls and it DOES tend to get boring after awhile. Not as stimulating as say. Beer.

So why should someone, the likes of me or anyone else here take your advice?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 02:53 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Then try a guy, fg... lol...

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 02:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

umm no. Try im like almost 30 and dont have the juice i used to. Guys dont turn me on buddy. Chicks do. Its just im not as eager to see there Beaver...as i would be when I wassss say 15.

Anyway this is all stupid. Your dumbass virgin commentary on sex is laughable.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:02 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was just pulling your leg...

And I am not virgin... I have a relationship...

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

The Apolyton Law: Any thread that hasn't devolved into a spam fest after twenty posts has escaped the gravitational pull of the planet Fez.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Although in this thread, I dont think its Fez who started the spamming or the trolling.

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Firstly, I can assure you. If you pulled my leg in RL, You wouldnt have any arms left. Secondly I serouisly doubt you have a relationship with anything more human than a dog carcass, or maybe a paralysed Goat. I find you extremely annoying as would any other mammal. Like a really bad habit. Ide like to kick with both feet

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:22
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

What Gianni? No stupid-assed comebacks?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 03:40 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

**** you, FG. I have more than you ever will have you rotten...

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 11-05-2003 05:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

lmao...pwned

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
Talking  Old Post 11-05-2003 05:59
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Fez
**** you, FG. I have more than you ever will have you rotten...


lmao. Maybe guys..and up the arse

But that doesnt count. Does it?

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.
Apolyton Time is 00:28.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0569 seconds (92.68% PHP - 7.32% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net