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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Loyalty and competance in the realm of education does not equate with the presence of a capable infrastructure. Remember that most of the factions' endeavors will be spent attempting early development of colonies and attempting to stem the growth of certain enemies with whom there is rivalry.
No sort of preexisting foundation is present upon which upgrades can be made. Much of the society is geared towards civilian as opposed to military methods, thus indicating that the presence of weapons specialists is not likely to be frequent or especially high.
I did not assume that the scenario was so develloped as to have permitted the passing of eighty years - especially when Morgan is still present.
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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The Sten gun was more or less developed by an industrial and economic giant with all the preexisting components on hand.
The factions on Chiron, beset by war, plauge, and disaster since planetfall. While it is likely that they have a competant industry for pursuing war, the variety of weapons in use suggests a very diverse sort of munitions programme.
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Well, then, there's not much left. If I could, I'd like a slightly more comprehensive run-down - about five to ten sentences - covering both Kane and Morgan. Thanks.
Also, Britain was still an industrial giant cranking out aircraft, large line vessels, and armored vehicles in the hundreds of thousands of tonnes. None of the factions can aspire even now to think of reaching that level.
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Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Desert Journeyman
Well, then, there's not much left. If I could, I'd like a slightly more comprehensive run-down - about five to ten sentences - covering both Kane and Morgan. Thanks.
Also, Britain was still an industrial giant cranking out aircraft, large line vessels, and armored vehicles in the hundreds of thousands of tonnes. None of the factions can aspire even now to think of reaching that level. |
Actually, they can produce aircraft and planes. They even produce whole cities. Also, you're forgetting that gun production was a low priority, and was accomplished with simple tools. Similar guns have been produced by other countries with less technology and industry, such as the USSR, China, and only slightly cruder weapons have been produced clandestinely in various parts of the world. Just look at the free market price of firearms, a generally accurate reflection of how hard they are to make - China can make good quality Kalashnikovs for under $100. Compare this with the cost of a single car or tank, and I think you can see that you could make enough guns for hundreds of men for the price of one truck or rover.
Don't know about Morgan, but my understanding of Kane is that we don't know a lot except this: He was a Hive general who got along somewhat well with the Peacekeepers, especially General Braddock. He defected to the PKs when the Hive declared war on them, and brought much of his army with him. His forces then participated in some of the battles around UN Data Acquisition. Today, he is trying to replace his losses in these battles and build up a military force based on Hive principles. His exact history, and what caused to make such a drastic step against the Hive, are not known to me. I bet you could work with him a little to make him what you want.
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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As I've said before, eighty years have passed, and thus, quite a large infrastructure probably exists for each faction.
Although I do question the size of the population - one of the only factors that leads me to conclude there is indeed an established foundation moving away from the colonial standard.
Also - there are so many varieties of "gun" and so few "weapons" standards that providing for, servicing, and supplying those firearms is likely to be a large-scale undertaking. Especially in a society where resources are valued and surplus rare.
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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I have not begun to participate, nor have I begun to read with too much scrutiny yet. But I do know that many sorts of weapons exist on Chiron. Supplying all of those cannot be an easy task. Especially as technology progresses so quickly.
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Well, where do the Morganites stand in terms of power? Aside from Morgan's political troubles, is that faction still Chiron's premier economic and industrial strength? Does Morgan have untold amounts of minerals and monies to cast about at will?
Or is Kane worth the taking, with his legions and troopers - that I could turn him into something of the faction I desired?
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
It is story motivated.
The tech level is at 3-6 right now, with some factions at either spectrum, but with most having only a few techs at level 6.
Most of the cities on Chiron are the regular earth-type, mid 20th century laid out cities, with the exception of a few crowded together "New York" like cities in the University- were congregation translates into ideas which translate into research which translate into strength. |
University Base doesn't have as big of a population as New York to have that kind of infrastructure. Anyway, mid-20th??? Science fiction here, cadillac and buick days.
Each faction is developing their own form of architecture that suit their needs. 20th century buildings are inefficient and dirty. The Spartans for example, would of started building their bases like Actual Military bases, so end up giving their own architectural character.
Hive bases are mostly underground and tight knit, so forcing gruesom infantry battles to take control of a Hive base.
For Pirates, i do think their bases would look like domes like in the game. and so on........
Sure, maybe older bases like the capital may look more old fashion and basic in the inner areas, but i am sure over the years factions update and imporve their infrastructure with resources they never had before and with new advances in Technology.
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
My thoughts on the infantry discussion - my guess is that the population varies radically from faction to faction. The PKs, Pirates, Cyborgs, University and Morgan probably have rather low population growth, along with most other factions. But then a few factions, like the Hive and the Believers, would have skyrocketing growth. The extra people would probably be deployed as forced labor, put into the military, or put into military units which spend most of their time on construction duties. The Hive and the Believers would probably need these laborers and soldiers to enable them to break even with the other factions economically and militarily despite their technological backwardness. So I think that the number of soldiers in an infantry unit would vary drastically from faction to faction, because some factions might deploy soldier-laborers who could fight (albeit not as well as professional armies) while still earning their keep as laborers. I read that this actually happened in the USSR and still happens in Russia, with soldiers growing pigs on their bases and being sent out to the fields in the fall to gather in the civillian harvest. |
Pirates growth rate may not be asgood, but they had plenty of room in the oceans to grow. With more bases, higher the population growth for the whole faction.
Hive would have the highest growth rate at the moment with the Believers as second. Hive has control of the Monsoon Jungle, so plenty of nutrients there to sustain a large population.
Believers had plenty of room and being Christian Fundies, they believe in large families i would think.
The Peacekeepers would be in third place has they do have a Growth bonus in the game and now have a lot of bases themselves and they are a democracy, where lot of people make love without barely any limits, aslong done in private. Free Drones could be fourth. Morganites, GAians, Data Angels, University, and Pirates as fifth. Cyborgs are a bit slow procreation wise.
Morgananites have large bases with plenty of luxury. They build new bases with three times the usual population to start with...so their growth rate is good.
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
Morgan has been having problems... The Perfect Society has been attempting to oust him as leader and eventually combine the University and the Morganites into a large Trade Conglomeration.
Morgan is quickly becoming unpopular with his people because he has tried to regulate companies which are buying up lots of shares on the stock market. They will soon be able to control the Market Economy's votes (which are based on #of stocks invested in the market) and easily oust Morgan- so he is worried.
(The people in question are the Perfect Society)
However, Morgan is approaching a possible trial in the near future. He will welcome world investment in the Morgan Stock Exchange as will outlined in the Free Trade Summit meeting as free investment will allow him to regain control over the stock market's activities.
Morgan's people don't really want the other factions to invest in their country as they can buy votes off of the stock exchange and elect who THEY want to be the Morganites leader. |
CEO Morgan still have good control of the Faction, just his stocks is being attacked. His Stocks went down a bit when they lost Morgan Bank. SOME people may not like the idea of foreigners to invest in their stocks, but many understand and see that they can also invest in other factions Stock Exchanges or whatever. Thats what Morgan is doing also to secure his position, by establishing companies in other factions, keep his Company (the faction as whole practicly) strong economicly so he can buy off the companies trying to buy him off now. Also, he has plans for the future you can say to establish a Planetary Stock Exchange hosted by Morgan Industries base, where it already has the Merchant Exchange. Morganites also currently building quietly the Planetary Energy Grid, where Morgan can establish MOrgan Banks everywhere  the current problems and some past ones are just setbacks, but he will gain Economical Domination of the world oh, he also put some investment into Morgan Exploration, the newest base on the northern island, also investing money to send expeditions into the island to find whatever wonders it may hold (Alien Center, Antimind :P I will be using the Morganite expedition to introduce the alien center...and no they won't gaian control of the place as mindworms will kill them...but not before they send a direct unencrypted message to Morgan...see where i am going? thats later... alien center will be the prelude to bringing the aliens here too :P)
Morgan doesn't like the Data Angels either, especially after taking Morgan Bank for the second time in history. but can't do anything about them just yet.
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quote:
Originally posted by Desert Journeyman
Concerning the size of "standard" formations, I'm going to have to agree with previous speculation: depending on the faction or organization in question, deployments would vary in both their composition of supernumiaries and equipment.
Even a fairly martial society such as the Spartans would likely field some of the smaller echelons. The University, Morganites, Cyborgs, and Pirates probably mirror this. Each can afford to supply themselves - via various means - with technology capable of elevating the firepower of even a small group well above the average standards.
The Peacekeepers, Free Drones, Hive, Believers, Cult of Planet, and Gaians might supply larger formations - approaching several hundred persons in size, armed with an assortment of archaic, outdated, and even useless equipment. They fight their battles with less precision, the majority of heavy weapons being used en masse or by teams with little expertise in the field of joint combat operations.
In terms of Rovers and Speeders, this would be similar. Although seventy Rovers would be a large cadré or regiment - of the type seen as a corps. It would probably be relied upon until its numbers ebbed to the dozens before replacement was even considered as a viable option. Resources are scarce even now - I doubt mass production has gotten very far so early.
---
Also - I'd sooner take another faction than the Morganites. Unless I could redress the situation and pull some military capability out of Morgan's wealth. |
The Morganites have a decent size military, just the morale suck :P especially receiving a blow by loosing Morgan Bank to the Data Angels via hidden Probe Team actions.
Desert, just to say, we are 2183....In Chiron Chronicles, Unity had a million people, quarter of them died by meteor hit, internal turmoil and split up..... had to make this adjustment to official story to make Chiron Chronicles a bit more realistic in that area....thats why we also skip from 2120 to 2180.
Average Faction have Missile Weaponry, which has revolutionize warfare on Chiron and the use of Artillery. Hive has just gain Missile weaponry, so good part of its military still not upgraded due to crappy economy. Believers still stuck with Impact and Gatling Lasers. Pirates has Chaos Weaponry, but currently finalizing the research by building a prototype, which may take a year to build as it involves other technologies gain by allies like SilkSteel and some research done in Neural Grafting. Cyborgs have some high tech stuff hidden in their databanks and not using for variety of reasons. University's hidden bases in Cyborg territory (long story) is doing some high research away from the political mess of University. They are experiementing withj Fusion Power and Fusion Lasers, but still several years off and hard to make prototypes there without being detected.
Peacekeepers will not use their military like the Hive would, and they are more professional and precise than you say, in this game anyway. Cult cannot support large infantry units and they don't have many of them as most of their military is made up of Mindworms. Gaians same, but they have a equal amount of conventional military and mindworms and they not into supportig large units, environmentalists and all. Free Drones can support large units, especially industrial wise. They may be into cheap units, but they won't use them like cannon fodder like the hive and a part of their military is made up of quality units. They are also currently focussing on building up the biggest air force on chiron and have future plans for them to establish the Cloudbase Academy, when they get the prequisite tech. Just to say, if you want to get into military stuff, Free Drones is a good option, especially being neighbours with the Hive they dislike and the Spartans. And they would have good moraled troops fighting the Hive before and the Mindworms throughout the decades (currently have an uneasy treaty, but Domai doesn't expect it to last and he is being annoyingly pressured by the Spartans)
Factions in general at the moment are not having trouble with resources. they do of course have their limit, but enough to support bunch of rover units. The Spartans are the only ones that is short in resources...energy wise too after spending so much into the military during the war. They have Industrial Automation, but still researching to apply the tech effectively.
I am not attacking you or whatever, just clarifying I am open to other peoples views, but I am a Moderator and I am also the reality check person
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Before i go on.......
REALITY CHECK:
This game is base on people who left earth 2060 for Alpha Centauri, not the 1940s. So Industrial ideas and tech would be different in the 2060. There was many standards designs have been establish for Unity. All the factions base their standards and designs upon those Unity standards and design.
Anyway, Unity had plenty of colonization equipment and the crew was chosen and trained. Some factions have better Infrastructure than others. Some factions have bigger military than others. Some factions have bigger populations due to various reasons than others. Some factions have better Economy. Some factions have better Moral and so on...... There is differences, but all capable by 2183 to have plenty of resources, especially with a lot of trade. Some factions like the Hive have 15-20 bases....sure their infrastructure is not the best, but they do have lots of man power. only faction at the moment is short on resources is the Spartans due to focussing on military stuff to much and crappy Industry, but was capable enough to establish good enough infrastructure and decent enough bases, even thought designed like they were actually Military Bases.
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Journeyman
Well, where do the Morganites stand in terms of power? Aside from Morgan's political troubles, is that faction still Chiron's premier economic and industrial strength? Does Morgan have untold amounts of minerals and monies to cast about at will? |
Morgan have the best economy, but had several setbacks over the years (silly trade war with the pirates, lost of Morgan bank, annoyances of discontent and the hidden Perfect Society, etc) and being Rivaled by the Pirates, economy wise.
Since the pirates practicly monopolize naval trade on chiron, Morgan as been focusing in building fleets of Air Transports, to monopolize trade by air. Morganites have the 4th best Industry on chiron at the moment, but do produce a lot of energy as they pretty much control the Uranium Flats (Game base on the large SMAX Chiron map). They have decent size military, but not the best moral wise. currently building Planetary Energy Grid quietly.
They share the Central continent with the Data Angels (they split off from morgan in the early years, some from University), University and the Cyborgs (split off from university in the early years) . They already have the Merchant Exchange at Morgan Industries. Morgan is planning to eventually, in the future, to Dominate the world economicly:P rest of the information about them mention in my previous post.
quote:
Or is Kane worth the taking, with his legions and troopers - that I could turn him into something of the faction I desired? |
Kane's Hive originally comprise of 7 Rovers units and 1 Infantry unit. during the Spartan War, they lost about 3 units, 2 others in the red. They were able to recover some rover losses from scavenge and at a Alien Structure..those poking little towers in the game that fixes your units and improve morale. Since Hive have more knowledge about their uses than others, Major Kurita, second-in-command to General Kane, took advantage of it. some casualties were recovered there too. 2 rover units were also upgraded by the Peacekeepers during that time. Now some of the surviving units have been upgraded too by PKs. but they are still short in recovering to their original full strength of 7 rovers units. so they disbanded the Infantry Unit to recover many of the personnel losses (they have more rovers than they can properly crew). They are still short in some rovers and crew. So Kane ask if he can acquire some of the Rovers the PKs are getting from Hive as part of their treaty agreement and some people. General Branko seems more willing to supply rovers than people. So kane will have its 7 rover Units, but still bit short personnel wise.
Another thing, Kane knows of a colony pod that been sent by him before he had to brake off and move to PK territory, to establish a base way south of the Hive territory had cape storm. Yang doesn't know about it yet and the new base still haven't made full contact to the rest of the faction....protocols you see has there is various PK and one Pirate base in the waters around the cape. Maybe somehow find a way to Kane to get there by sea and establish himself there? May be one base, but still :P Later one, Yang will find out and may get into various Internal Hive conflicts General Kane does believe in many of the Hive ways, but also have bit of other beliefs which his loyals believe too. He is a Good Guy, but can be quite devious. He also have some form of friendship with General Braddock of PK since when they fought each other along the Planetneck in the 2140s during the Hive War.
anything else you would like to know?
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Desert Journeyman
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The Imperial Remnant
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Kane, it is then, thanks.
What kind of rovers does Kane have? What sort of weapons technology? Will there be energy and resources on hand at the base? Is the colony even set up yet by those who went ahead?
In terms of the current situation, are Kane's troops marching towards Cape Storm?
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Desert, KAne has 3 armoured AAA plasma rovers, 2 non-armoured missile rovers with deep radar(hive built rovers braddock provided) and 2 non-armoured msl rovers. Msl upgrades been provided by the Pks. Kane may have 7 full rover units, but only enough people to properly crew 5 of those units, especially after disbanding an Infantry unit. Kane is still waiting for Braddock's response about providing some PK people to cover the crew losses.
Kane's units is currently with the PK units surrounding U.N. Data Acquisition which the Spartan captured during the war. Spartans and Peacekeepers only have a Truce and still negociating. Kane himself is currently leading one of the Units there while his second in command Major Kurita leads another.
Kane just knows the Colony Pod left and was still in transit when he left Hive. None of his few remaining contacts in Hive territory mentioned that the Yang discovered them yet. So the name and the fate of the new base is your choice. Kane would have sent quick message to the Colony Pod to keep silent until he contacts them.
Kane was Yang's favourite General. Was promoted to Major after heroicly defended against the Spartans Army during its Hive Campaign in 2119-21 at the Monsoon Jungle by leading some overpowered and outnumbered infantry units. Then Promoted to General during the first few attacks against the Free Drones. He was then transfered to lead the units against the Peacekeepers during the Hive War, which mainly was a long out battle across the Planetneck, against PK units lead by General Braddock.
During that battle, Kane gain respect for Braddock and his strategies. They both succeeded in punching across the PLanetneck, but quickly pushed back. half of that time was a stalemate.... chokepoint and all :P
Quick question...... is Colonel a higher rank than Major or vice versa?
-LordLMP
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Okay, the standard ranks for army and air units is:
Cadet
Private
Corperal
Sergeant
Lieutenant
Captain
Commander
Major
Colonel
General
for naval units:
Cadet
Seaman
Petty Officer
Master Chief
Ensign
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Commodore
Vice-Adimiral
Admiral
Don't have to use them or/and can modify/create your own ranks. Make these more complex like the ones in the real US military if you like. I know my Pirates use these :P
And makes sence to have Commander leading a Unit. And Captain for a NAval Unit.
Anyway, some of the characters i ever created in this game needs promotions like Cooke, Deavey, Kurita and so on :P
edit: also need to improve my english writing ;p
-LordLMP
Last edited by on 05-07-2001 at 21:13
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02-07-2001 08:31
(j/k)
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