07-07-2001 00:25									#211
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How have I altered the technology tree?
I was told that crowded dwelling places were technically unfeasable- I do not see how a crowded dwelling place would not be feasable if there were sanititation and other services in place?

I was chided for saying I wanted a new-york like crammed-in crowded city... I found that insulting.

When people begin debating whether certain guns that are included in the game are technically feasable, I find that strange... I really don't care about the debate- but the reason I said what I said is that I believe we should just follow the game- not debate whether something would truly work or not... and thus I am following SMAC's focus.

Perhaps the splinter factions within the University are not part of SMAC's focus, but I also thought that some of the story would be based upon real life... and in real life within groups there is dissention... Look at all the different Muslim and Christian sub-religions.

	07-07-2001 00:39									#212
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Feasible, please spell it right...

Altering the tech tree like having 9-defence armour before we get anywhere near it. Altering the tech tree like having Cloning before anyone gets Biomachinery or whatever the prereq is. Want me to go on?

	07-07-2001 01:12									#213
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You guys, this has all gotten way out of hand. This was supposed to be fun, we we're supposed to be playing a game here. But there are more posts in the discussion threads bickering about details and things that really aren't important that it's become a waste of time.

I'm NOT saying I've not made complaints, but I have TRIED to be as cooperative as possible. It just seems that everyone has there own plan of how the entire "story" must go that nobody is willing to just play their faction and "react" to each other actions. Maybe I was mistaken and that wasn't the point. I don't know.

But at this point, I'm hanging up my hat as Datajack and the Angels are a free faction again. I do wish you the best of luck and I hope you can work out your differences and keep the story going. I'll be sure to stop by and keep reading if I can.

As a final note, I would like to make sure it's clear that this is not due to Smac Fanatic and DarkClouds current arguements. It's all the arguing put together which has prompted me to leave.

Best of luck to you all,

Argo

	07-07-2001 02:48									#214
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Now this is VERY bad news...

-but as a matter of fact, I have had similar thoughts myself at least a couple of times... I'm not saying that it's happening yet, but if this is all going to turn into one big argument about who can do what where when & how, then I'm out of here too.

I've had a few arguments with Cyber myself, but I think that's about it. -And although (like Sprayber) I disagree with the entire Cult of War concept, I'm trying not to make a lot of fuzz about it as long as it doesn't get TOO outrageous...

As for this project we've got going here... we can call it a story a diplomacy game or whatever... that's not the point. The point is that there's more than one of us involved in it, and so what does that tell you?

It tells me that I can't always have things my way!!!!

Now, this does NOT mean that I'm going to put up with NEVER having things my way, but I was hoping we could find some sort of pathway in between somewhere...

That's all i wanted to say, really...

Have a nice day.

Guardian

Last edited by Guardian on 07-07-2001 at 02:54

	07-07-2001 03:24									#215
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Everyone just chill. Hang mellow. Small arguments are part of the game, learn to take them well, try to avoid and resolve them without too much trouble. Just stay calm. Remember, if it gets out of hand, a mod will always step in and make a final ruling. And while you're at it, enjoy the game.

	07-07-2001 21:30									#216
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Goodbye Argonaut, your stories and input was greatly appreciated in the Chronicle.

I hope everyone will voice their problems with the GM's or other players before it gets too out of hand, like this SMAC Fanatic episode... If I had explained things to him better earlier, then we would have gotten this resolved much earlier and possibly become good friends!

SMAC Fanatic- I have the technology chart and it clearly says that I can have the 6-defense armor. (It was 6, not 9) (It was a Pulse Resonanance person you had the problem with, correct? Bioadaptive Resonance [Conquer 4] Resonance Laser [A6r]) Adaptive Doctrine[Conquer 3] Pulse Armor [D3]

Cloning was agreed to before we began the game, it was one of the University's bonuses, the Cyborgs could build people and download personality files into them... everyone was equal. This was agreed because Cloning has been invented upon earth now, and (what follows is what I remember-not what I know- In "Alpha Centauri" history, they must have cloned a human on Earth before they sent the Unity to Chiron.)

Please go on with any other problems you have with my stories, SMAC Fanatic, I am more than happy to clear up any misconceptions you have. I value your presence to the story and I thank you for trying to police the game.

	09-07-2001 18:47									#217
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Is everyone loosing interest? It's a shame to see Argonaut go. The Data Angels are an important faction. Is everyone else still committed to the CC?

	09-07-2001 18:53									#218
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I can relate with you people. This is becoming very stupid with all this nonsence argument. To see Chiron Chronicles fall apart pains me, especially so close to our one year anniversary!

I do see somethings going out of hand and do see that this sub-faction stuff is getting out of hand and so on. This game becoming too political for my taste, and too argumentive over details.

Original Idea of this Game: To play SMAX in a Diplomacy style, in writing here at the bulletin boards. We would have more freedom to play more realisticly....meaning, common sence base on SMAX.
I don't freakin care about some technologies being realistic or not, its SMAX! Only realism i care about is How you use that Tech, how you use your Units, and so on. The point of the game was, the Character is the Faction, not individual characters. The Leaders, the commanders and so on are just the sub-characters of the Whole. Players have the freedom to mold these Characters base on SMAX, base on their ideologies and character in the game. There was also to be balance in this game. most of all, is to have fun, not argue.


Lot of this which i said above failed it seems. Spartans became a Nazi Barbaric Genocidal Faction (not since Sprayber took them) instead of a honorable paranoid survivalist faction.
Do to a player playing double life, which is illegal on this board, made the Peacekeepers completly weak at the beginning which they are not. Centauri Dawn shows that the Pks could be tough, even against the Spartans, when needs be.
University became a complete Political turmoil of nonsence, isolationistic, don't know what bases they have and so on instead of focussing in their goal of amoral Research.
etc...

I am not saying i am perfect, but i do say that we should be able to work together.


Idea: Restart

Start a new game completly. With different map maybe, or different starting locations. and according to what i said above about the goals of the game.

Add some new rules, limits with the agreement of all players. New game would be Focus on SMAX and to avoiding drifting away from it. Planetmind cannot be played, and Antimind will not exist.

As for moderation, i will still continue to play Mod, or elect someone else.

Other idea, completly re-work Chiron Chronicles.

This is also an opportunity for all people interested in participating in the game to join and take a faction.

-LordLMP

	09-07-2001 20:38									#219
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Starting over would be ok with me. Or simply advancing the years a little and reworking the framework. I think we should still use the same map though. Just so that things are familiar. I wouldn't mind different starting positions or keeping them the same. Just whatever is agreed upon.

If people want to switch factions to make it a challenge then I wouldn't be opposed, but I would like to give the Spartans a try again.

My thoughts on the Spartans

They are conservative

They are against too much influence by the plantary council

They wouldn't use nerve gas, except if their enemy was on Spartan soil or their enemy used gas first

They would have no problem using force to put down riots and civilaian uprisings

They would perfer to use different methods, they will go out of their way to avoid it but once employed they will use maximum force.

They would perfer to be on their own contient but realize that it's most likely they would have to share one with at least two faction.

Basically the Sparta of ancient times, except i have a hard time believing they would keep slaves. Maybe more like the US was in the earlier years. Not like it is today.

Santiago is no diplomat, but would definitly have had sense to have advisors that would supplement her lack of experience. LMP has mentioned Centauri Dawn. I read it to and agree that the description in there is pretty accurate, but to make things interesting a few other things could be added.

	09-07-2001 21:38									#220
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I would also like to keep my faction, although there are some others I could consider. I find starting over to be acceptable.

	09-07-2001 23:48									#221
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I am against a restart because, although the story has problems, I believe they can be resolved.

If we do a restart- I suppose I will sit out for at least a while... I am presently working on a new website and may not have the time to participate in an entirely new game and create new statistics.

If there is a restart, I wish LMP and everyone luck.

University has been researching; things just required them to retool for war... With Zakharov at the head of the University after December they began to focus more on research until the Spartans approached them and Zakharov saw an opportunity to get back at the Cyborgs. University research proceeds... The faction merely has inter-turmoils just like on Earth.

The main reason for this was so I could do something with the faction when SMAC Fanatic left for a while and Argonaut went on vacation. The University needed something to do. They were too far from all other active factions except the Pirates.

	10-07-2001 10:21									#222
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I say we still use the Chiron Map, but starting locations would pretty much be the same....

I have a better idea Just take Chiron Chronicles of now, and rewrite history and start it 2190 or 2200. There will be no antimind and planetmind cannot be played, or be able to actually be part of the Planetary Coucil. The Stats would just need some editing, but not much. Most of the bases Locations would be same, and Planetary Council Base too. By 2200, factions are shifting from Missile Weaponry to Chaos... The Space by various factions and just started shooting up Satellites...and also possibly an arm race :P The Cyborgs or/and University are very close to Fusion Power... Peacekeepers would really be into playing their role of peacekeepers by nosing into other factions conflicts and affairs and so on maybe They could have started on the island or on the continent orginally.... U.N. SeaQuest would still be around without getting nuked......of course, doesn't stop from being nuke again. No wars at the moment,... there would be a Chiron Alliance, but bit looser...would be strickly a Economical and Military Alliance and may have less members. COuld put the Alien Center thing into history, or make it happen sometime in beginning...and have the Aliens show up soon after. Global Trade Summit as happened and success... so Global Trade, mainly between the Chiron Alliance, Free Drones, University and Morganites.

Also, have to bump the rules up and add some stuff, or modify and so on.... we should have an agreement about it, and the limits/the bounds and so on.

another thing, should create a new discussion thread.

what do you think? don't have to start from scratch, bit of fast forward, history reworked and so on so meaning, details about factions would change...and people could use the same characters too. Leaders should be the Faction leaders and be creative about why they still incharge, even in a democracy :P even someone else but the leader was elected...leader would be treated like the Queen is being treated (well, you know what i mean) in England. A chance to mold the faction differently from the Chiron Chronicles now.

-LordLMP

	10-07-2001 21:16									#223
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That sounds like a good idea LMP.

In that case the University would still have Howell, but he will be used in diplomacy ways- he is leaning towards Cyborg equality due to the chip, but is undecided.

Fizben will have been imprisoned and died in prison by 2200.

Perfect Society- I cannot decide what to do with them in the interests of a diplomacy game. I think I should keep them, but if everyone wants us to focus on the story, then they should die down a bit?

I could use them as a good diplomacy tactic thing, but Zakharov is back in power; the underground project is discovered and he is throwing them in jail or telling his soldiers to shoot them on the streets unless they wave a white flag... Hands up isn't enough for him.

I agree that we get rid of Antimind- I had no idea what Antimind was about anyway.

The Cult of War... As GM I would like to say that they have a good reason to exist. However we must decide how close we want to stay to the Alpha Centauri Game.

PS. about every 5 months we seem to have turmoil like this, Example: August-Dec (1st reset) (5 months)
Jan-July (2nd reset) (6 months)

	10-07-2001 22:36									#224
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I also agree with [LordLMP] on this.

	11-07-2001 00:45									#225
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I like the idea.

LMP--are you saying that we should have returned to the original leaders by 2200? That's ok by me. The only reason I had Santiago stuck in a tank to begin with was that her personality was so polluted by the atrocites, that there was no logical way the PKs or other faction leaders would work with her. I guess I could have her recover from her illness and by the time 17 years has passed Lal would look over some things. Don't forget, she has twins that would be in their teens by now. Anyway, I like the idea of just advancing the years and reworking the history a little. also I was going to have the Spartans begin work on a sea colony pod. Can you just add one sea base for them. Probably just off around milita station maybe. Let me know if that's acceptable.


I think the idea of the Cult of War is ridiculous. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it. If they are still around, then by 2200 they would have been greatly reduced in strength. No Spartan leader would let a group like that have that much power over their citizens. They surely wouldn't have let them have sole possesion of a base either. I understand that Cyber was trying to add something to the story line but, I just can't see them having a large role in Sparta, especially if the Spartans are interested in not fighting the whole planet at the same time. They just go against what I think the Spartans are.

Last edited by Sprayber on 11-07-2001 at 00:59

	11-07-2001 07:33									#226
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I think Cyber may have gotten banned for having DL's...
Hopefully not- Hopefully since he admitted to the DL's Mark will not ban him...

I didn't think there was much wrong with a Cult of War as GM. It seemed to me as a natural progression for an outlet for Spartan war needs.

It was moving away from the general guidelines of the Alpha Centauri History, I do agree, however...

	11-07-2001 10:47									#227
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So it is agreed?

re-work history also means you could remove the atrocities from history too...atleast the majority like the nuke, mass genocide, using hive citizens has slaves, human shield, and so on. But could still have that the Spartans invaded the Pks early on still, with bit better reasons then simply being weak and need to be gotten rid of.... maybe started over a Unity Pod like in Centauri Dawn, territory and so on. Heavy fighting was done at War Outpost, the ex-PK base, and spartans succeeded in takinh control of it, but not without non-intentional casualties to civilians. rebels could of gotten excuted, but not for the sake of genocide. While rest of Pk bases finally prepare for invasion by the spartans, HQ contructs Transport Foils with a Colony Pod.
PK still does its rescue of the remaining PK population in War Outpost (would of went to Haven City which still haven't been discovered by Spartans at the time...among the survivors, Braddock) , which annoys Santiego further and orders to continue with the war....so they went and attacked Temple of Sol. PKs had some early warning and was able to evacuate the base and troops setting it up for warfare. Population goes straight to UN HQ (UN Enforcement Base later on). Another interesting battle happens at Temple of Sol, where the PKs there eventually got eliminated, and so did the base due to collateral damage and small size of base. So the Spartans takes a short break while sending scouts to follow the Evacuees straight to UN HQ. Then Spartan Army moves towards UN HQ. PK Scouts warns HQ of coming spartan army. During that time, the people from War Outpost, Temple of Sol and majority of HQ go into Transport Foils and sets sail to the island south of the Eastern Continent. Whats left of the PK Security Force, except garrisons of Humanity Base and Haven City, gathers at UN HQ. Lal stays behind until the last hours of the Battle. The Battle could of lasted for a week, but Spartans eventually brook through the Perimeter Defence and invaded the base....whats left of PK people there evacuates the base in a Transport Foil left behind for them. Could have the Centauri Dawn happening where Lal's son dies fighting the Spartans, or Santiego herself, after unknownly killed her son in battle. Foil stayed close to shore, and Lal came alone straight to Santiego to talk, like in the book, but different style and environment. Lal gets nocks out and wakes up in time to see the remmants of Spartans leaving, also blowing up whats left of the Perimeter Defence and being warned that would be better if he and his Pks left the continent entirelly. So Lal gets back to the Foil and goes to PK island and resettup his faction there, with barely any contact with HUmanity Base and Haven City for several years. Braddock eventually gets into military along with most of the War Outpost survivors and goes on with this Pro-War beliefs, using force to enforce the UN Charter and hidden revenge because Spartans killed his Wife and Son during the fighting inside the base. Pro-War people, lead by Braddock, eventually establish proper communication with Humanity Base and Haven City, retakes the Old UN HQ and renames it the UN Enforcement Base......and continues to colonized around the dunes while the Spartans are busy fighting the Hive. Braddock would also be busy building up the PK Continental Forces and the long defence line, also establishing new bases and mining stuff in the dunes.

what do you think? not much in atrocities. During the Spartan War, spartans would use Nerve Gas in the offensive, under General Helzbergs orders, which gets punished later, or even executed.

Sea Base is acceptable, just not to the Pirates i would think :P could say the Pirates and Spartans had a short naval conflict concerning over the spartans trying to setup a seabase. Relations between those two factions would be icy. Temple of War, under maybe another name, would of have been established, just that it lost contact with Sparta during the Spartan War and after the Pirates struck via the Upland Waste.



Yesm we always seem to get to the point of turmoil and then reset oh well. first wasn't much of turmoil, resetted due more to common sence, realism and to have more stuff to do then colonize, colonize, colonize and battle it out with small militaries early in the game.

	11-07-2001 11:22									#228
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Sounds good to me. So I assume that the bases are pretty much in the same places just different circumstances. I'm all for it. I don't think Guardian would have any objection either.

Are we going to have new Admin, dicussion threads? Should we rework our unit listings and such?

	11-07-2001 21:21									#229
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I think we need new Admin and Discussion threads.

As well as a History thread to show what was reworked in the story.

	11-07-2001 21:24									#230
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Oh yes... my internet access will be random and interspersed over the next few weeks... so I may not be able to write every day or even every week... but after August 15 my schedule should be settled down.