12-05-2003 04:15									#1
	Blue and Yellow city sites Get a bigger avatar today!

Hello,

I was a ghost on the last demo game, and having just looked over the very nice map in the turnchat thread, I would suggest moving yellow city site over 1 tile so it is a port location. Us Vikings will need longboats eventually, after all, and the main focus of our other cities would seem to be heading more northwards towards the Iron (we hope!)

I understand about cramming, but I think the port might prove important, especially if we can contact some other civilizations before anybody else on this little land mass does. Having an established port city would aid us a lot in this quest?

Moonbars.

	12-05-2003 18:06									#2
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An interesting idea, Moonbars, and there are a few things to consider.

Our Red city will already be a port where we can build our plundering armada. The close-packing structure of our proposed city plan is partly to reduce the corruption, partly to enable rapid reinforcement if we lose units to an attacker, and partly so multiple cities can take advantage of the same terrain improvements (one at a time, that is).

Which direction did you want to move the city? SE means there is a bit TOO much closeness, and SW or S mean that the existing bonus resource mined/roaded grassland is out of range, and an extra road needs to be built through forest to connect the city up. These are small points to consider, with the largest being the fact that the bonus grassland SE of Asgard can only be used by Asgard itself and the more distant red city, but they add up.

The plan we have is a good compromise between closeness for efficient use of scarce resources and limited worker time and location for troop bases.

Cheers for forcing me to look at this in some detail. From having to look at this option, I have actually analysed the location a little for myself instead of just taking the word of everyone else. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to happen (and DID happen successfully in the last game) if we are to self-critique our own actions to find the best path to victory.

Please PLEASE keep doing this. Something I have learned above all else both here and elsewhere, is to ask questions. LOTS of them. If you can't find the answer already, ask and it may just give us a whole new idea. If not, it at least means we examine our chosen options that little bit more closely.

So to Moonbars and anyone else reading this - however active you are, whatever you think, make your alternate views known and explain any other ideas you have. We prosper from variety and so it is threads like this that make our game.

	12-05-2003 18:14									#3
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Yes, gaining the city from the Ottoman this early might change some things. I will take a closer look at the new city placement situation when I get a chance. Not sure when that is going to be as Friday is rapidly approaching...

	12-05-2003 19:13									#4
	Got spare money?

MWIA: "Our Red city will already be a port where we can build our plundering armada."

When we built it it will be That might be a while?

MWIA "Which direction did you want to move the city?"

I want to move it to where that Celtic Archer is loitering. Re-enforcement still takes 1 turn, crossing the river into Yellow to end it's turn (from the Capital). Crossing the river going the other way makes this move the same turn-cost as before.

MWIA "The plan we have is a good compromise between closeness for efficient use of scarce resources and limited worker time and location for troop bases."

Margianally higher corruption is an issue with my mod. However we will control more territory, devprive the AI of a nice city site on the plain between the hills and the current yellow site, and we have a shot at getting a city into the hills to capture iron, which I don't think we will manage with the current yellow site.

The current plan is indeed good! I would have voted for this plan had I found this new DG sooner, however on the note of "disbanding" cities later on, I think that's a terrible crime against our people and a waste of a settler who might found a city on a nice island we find with our boats, also moving yellow city as I propose removes the over-crowded need to disband it and move it later on.

I am keen to get a port so we can grow that city, make it productive, build a navy and go find:

Islands to colonise
Luxuries and Resources - we don't have any!
Other Civilizations - to catch up on tech

I found out how to use Smilies. Watch out.
Moonbars

	12-05-2003 20:25									#5
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Welcome Moonbars

I thought of also moving Yellow down one, but the corruption is the ticket here. Moving it towards the coast gives one extra space between it and the capitol, allowing the one corruption to sneak in. That is what we are trying to avoid. The plan calls for Yellow to be dismantled eventually. We will only build a barracks, then sell it off and force build a settler, allowing us to move the city at a later date.

But as MWIA said above, please keep doing this kind of work. It is needed. Glad to have you.

	13-05-2003 02:20									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I wouldnt worry about getting a costal city right now. We will have plenty of opportunity to that that. Having one up and running by the time we have map making is important though IMHO. That will allow us to send out a few galleys to meet the others. More civs met=more possible trades. I would actually prefer the blue site first because it fills in the space between Asgard and Iznik and allows faster improving of Izniks tiles.

	13-05-2003 03:23									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It may be some time before we build a port city, you're right there... And although early contact with other civs is important, it is not as important as our immediate survival and the carving out of some land. This is Deity, and from what I have seen of this difficulty it requires a very aggressive stance the whole way through. Hence we must cut down one of our neighbours to even have a chance, else we are squashed between the (already) uch larger Iroquis, Ottomans and (whereever they are) Celts.

Galleys will come when we can get them, but for the moment getting to MapMaking is itself a long way off and feeling safe enough to devote resources to them is just as far.