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ahasverus
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Again and again I see you Americans say:
"oh you're against the war ,you're a Liberal"
Now what is liberalism to you?
Where I come from, liberalism is a political system that says "as little government as possible" aka you're taxes only pays for police and army if it's perfect.
What the Republicans stands for in my understanding.
But you Americans use it almost as a synonym for socialism(european style) aka heavy centralized government that is pacifistic? with high taxes to pay for free education, hospitals and unemployment etc etc.
In Denmark we have a Liberal-Conservative government which is to the right and as the head-opposition we have the Socialdemocracy which is to the left. A more rightwinged party is supporting the government and pretty much anything left of the government is supporting the Socialdemocracy.
Now why is there that difference between US and EU-definition?
Or I have misunderstood something?
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Stefu
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CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Jan 1970
time: 07:28
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Well, basically, in the 1700s, two strains of liberalism were born. There was the classical liberalism of Locke and later a bunch of other thinkers mainly in the British isles, and there was the social liberalism originating with Roussau and Voltaire and working on from there. Oddly, while the ideas of classical liberalism took off the most in America and those of social liberalism in Europe, today liberalism means classical liberalism in Europe and social liberalism in America. Biggest reason is probably that socialism mostly absorbed the social liberal thought in Europe, while Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s cause liberalism to become the word to mean the American center-left.
What you describe as perfect liberalism is known as libertarianism in America (there are smaller libertarian contigents around the world, but they are, um, smaller). It's a political movement with a support of perhaps 3-5% in real world and 30-50% in the Internet. This means you'll soon meet the libertarians. This generally shocks us innocent Europeans and leads to big big quote-fest debates, because freedom means the freedom to dissect the hell out of your post and cause the scroll bar grow smaller and smaller. Usually, the classical liberals weren't willing to go as far as libertarians, supporting at least some sort of government aid for desperately poor and often some other regulations that libertarians hold as evidence of TEH SOCIALIST MENACE.
America's Republicans can't really be said to stand for much of a smaller government today, considering how much Bush has increased the size of the government. They're conservatives, though their conservatism's been influenced by classical liberalism.
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ahasverus
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Just a little off-topic but here in Europe the governments gets a kick out privatizing a lot of services that before was handled by the state among other things the postal services.
Is the postal services in the US private or state?
And are they gonna privatize it if state?
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:28
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The U.S. Postal Service is state owned and by quirk of fate the constitution actually requires the state to continue serving that function. Still in the 1970's the Republicans passed a reform measure where the U.S.P.S. had to operate without any public money but forbid them to raise rates without express congressional approval. Since they couldn't raise rates they had to push for greater efficiency and now the Post Office is the most efficient part of the U.S. government.
Last edited by Oerdin on 13-05-2003 at 05:26
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
To the Yanks, "liberal" somehow means "left-wing", and conservative means "right-wing". Liberals in US definition are first defenders of freedom in the moralistic / religious domain. But the meaning has evolved to include mild social-democrats and pacifists too.
When someone is too social-democrat in the US, he becomes immediately dubbed a "socialist" or a "communist". When someone is against capitalism, he is dubbed "un-American"  |
Well, Spiffor, if I were to accept your definition, I would be a liberal except for the pacifism bit.
Liberals today are indeed "socialists" because they view society in terms of class warfare and see their mission as bringing equality as opposed to equal opportunity. They are in favor of high, progressive taxation, regulation of if not ownership of big business and health, and welfare programs for their constituencies.
When they speak of taxing the rich, most of us are shocked to find that the rich are actually the middle class. The middle class bears the burden of the welfare state and receives very few of its benefits.
Liberals are against school vouchers because they are against giving up government control of the public school's curriculum which is designed to raise good little PC democrats. They are further against it because they support the teacher's unions whose wages and privileges would potentially suffer if there was competition.
Liberals are in favor of free speech until a conservative wants to speak.
Liberals are in favor of freedom from religion. They will fire any teacher caught wearing a crusifix.
Liberals are in favor advancing democracy in foreign policy until we want to remove a socialist dictator from power.
Liberals are pro-environment. Thery are against free trade agreements because business simply move their polluting factories to a free trade zone outside the United States.
And finally, let me add, that a liberal never saw a business man they liked or a union member they did not like.
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12-05-2003 21:25
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