15-05-2003 07:05									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

Guys, for those of you that say there is nothing wrong with the visuals, the animations most notabley.....and for those of you say that graphics dont matter well I strongly have to disagree here.

In a game like CIV, graphics werent an issue with me BUT in a RTS game, there is a certain fluid video game responsiveness that you expect to make the game feel polished and tight. Take a look at C&C Generals for a fantastic example of animation and graphic brilliance....they did a fantastic job.

Sure gameplay is extremely important but when you see huge Destroyer ships making 180 degree turns in about 3 frames of motion or see bomber planes jerking missiles in the sky, it can really detract from a flowing smooth experience

	15-05-2003 07:10									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

oh u mean the ships....ya they do make sudden moves in certain instances but i think its to solve the more annoying problem of ships bobbling around and not moving in EE, cause the area doesnt have enough space to maneuver properly....I see it as a lesser of two evil...I rather the ships move to where I told it, and deal with a bit of animation glitchiness then wonder why my ships still bobbling in the same area and not going where I told it.

	15-05-2003 07:35									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py MxM, you are quite wrong. All animations can be achieved in 2D Rendering, all you do is make the unit in 3D, then render each frame in 2D, thats what they did in AoE and AoK.

quote: Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy exactly...and if u really think about it.....its ALL 2D really I mean even in 3D u're rendering on a 2D screen. Anything that can be done in 3D can be done in 2D its just a matter of animation. If u dont have camera rotation, other then say the ease of modelling in 3D vs 2D art maybe your own advantage if that is an advantage at all.

Ok, then how you can achieve the effect of light illuminating the unit from one side during the blast? How you can achieve the unit flying after the blast in the direction and to the distance proportional to the blast? Or unit casting shadow on another unit? This and many other effects CAN NOT be pre-rendered in advance. In addition to this, the amount of animations is very limited in 2D in comparison with 3D. There is also annoying feature of 2D graphics to became smaller when you increase screen resolution. And if it were true that you can always use 2D instead of 3D, you would have still played the games like Quake III with sprite based graphics.

The reason why the RTS games used 2D graphics in the past is that the hardware requirements to show many 3D units are too high. But similar too FPS, RTS will move to 3D.

BTW I was not saying that in RON the graphics are much better than in AOK or any other 2D based game. Even though I think that they are quite good, I believe they could have done better. Just look at AOM or Warcraft III or C&C Generals for the nice 3D graphics, which I would say are much better than in any other 2D based game.

On the positive side of slightly simplistic graphic in RON, the game does play extremely smooth on my computer.

	15-05-2003 08:01									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

of course its all achiveable...computer graphics is all an illusion...ever watched a cartoon? yet they manage to make it the size of a theater and u dont see any blocks, how do they make it look real or have directional lighting effects or whatnot. its all just art work...just cause u dont have a 3d model and hardware support doesnt mean u cant do the same effect, it just means the programmer more work thats all... maybe i'm just old...but what u're trying to tell me is like saying, how on earth could people do arithmatic before they had pocket calculators....dont get so caught up in the current paradigm...if programming was invented by cartoon makers, they may have developed a different approach then 3D modelling, and science would have optimized that in its own way...

Last edited by One_Dead_Villy on 15-05-2003 at 08:19

	15-05-2003 09:28									#35
	Got spare money?

What about Diablo II, that had transform and lighting, but none of the graphics were 3D, were they?

Besides, I don't care about the lighting effects much, hardly notice it. I still rather have crisp and smooth 2D animations like you saw in AoE and AoK.

These days, they've reinvented the wheel; but made it a square.

	16-05-2003 02:08									#36
	Remove this text

Came across post at another site that said that Nvidia display of RON was considerably sharpened by latest Nvidia Detonator Driver for Windows XP/2000 that was released 5-14-03.

The filename is 44.03_win2kxp_international available at the nvidia.com site. I will give it a try tonight and see what happens, if anything. Caveat emptor on diddling with your video driver software, of course. Read the instructions carefully.

	16-05-2003 09:48									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by wilebill Came across post at another site that said that Nvidia display of RON was considerably sharpened by latest Nvidia Detonator Driver for Windows XP/2000 that was released 5-14-03. The filename is 44.03_win2kxp_international available at the nvidia.com site. I will give it a try tonight and see what happens, if anything. Caveat emptor on diddling with your video driver software, of course. Read the instructions carefully.

I've installed the new drivers, but don't see any difference with the demo.

	16-05-2003 17:48									#38
	Remove this text

Sympathies, Sting. The new drivers cured my problems with blurry figures and furry buildings, now the graphics look sharp, detailed, and distinct. At my best resolution (1240 x 1020 x 32 I think) on a 16.1" true diagonal screen I find the graphics to be at least more than adequate.

Now that the graphics issue is out of the way for me, the game itself begins to grip me. This is a ferociously wonderful game!

	16-05-2003 19:34									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I second that wilebill