14-05-2003 04:06									#1
	While I'm at it... ATTRITION Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Another question for the developers:

The French and their Healing Supply Wagon:

First off, let me state that I do not in the slightest understand how attrition is calculated in this game yet. I have played numerous games, and always seem to see something different. I am not saying it is broke, just that I don't understand it yet.

I know that Supply Wagons will help your invading army take less attrition damage when attacking your enemy in his territory. At least, I think I know this. I am correct on this point.... right?

How does the French healing supply wagons effect this statistically? Does the healing completely counteract the effects of attrition, thereby negating attrition altogether? If so, then the French, not the Russians or the Mongols, are the kings of dealing with the negative effects of attrition, correct? PLEASE help me to understand this, since attrition is one of the coolest features this game has IMO.

Because it would seem kind of retarded if I am playing against a Russian adversary who says, "Hey Leaper, I took the Russians, so you will take serious Attrition Damage from Russian Winter when you attack me." And I say... "Nope, you commie bastard, I have the French, and therefore will actually HEAL during your crappy bonus called Russian Winter! Your bonus is totally worth monkey balls! I took one of your coolest bonuses, and buried it in the sand!" That would suck for him, that's for sure. Please clarify.

Thanks again,

Leaper

*edited for clarity

Last edited by Leaper on 14-05-2003 at 04:13

	14-05-2003 05:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Units only take normal attrition damage if they are out of supply - that is to say in an enemy territory and outside the radius of a supply wagon. If your wagons have the ability to heal (French, wonder power) that is an additional effect. There are also technologies you can take that reduce the overall effect of attrition on your units. These technologies are available equally to all nations.

	14-05-2003 07:21									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Paul -

Got it. That does help alot. So the supply wagons negate attrition totally then.

How does Russian Winter mix into the whole pot then? Does it just add to the attrition damage when not supplied... or does it actually override the supply wagons to continue to cause attrition damage?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

~ Leaper

	14-05-2003 11:47									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The Russian attrition power does not override supply wagons. It just gives the Russains more powerful attrition effects.

On a side note, it's worth pointing out that the Russians have a light cav UU that is very effective against siege and supply wagons.

	14-05-2003 14:35									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OH, Ok. Light bulb just went on!

So you're saying, if I am defending against an incoming army, and I target their supply trucks (gasp... use strategy... shudder) especially as the Russians, his army will either be forced to eventually withdraw, re-establish supply lines, or take a beating on attrition damage while staying within my borders.

Ding, Ding, Ding.... What's this? Leaper finally gets a freakin' clue!!!

By the way, in case I haven't already made this clear, the only other RTS game that even remotely tried something like attrition (that actually worked) was Kohan. And I could not be happier that you not only included it in RoN, but made it even better. The more I think about it, it makes more and more sense. That is why we don't see "auto-healing" as the standard in this game... it would through a huge monkey wrench in the concept of attrition, which would be bad.

Just thought of something: Since I am so excited to get the full game and play as the Russians, not only will I need to focus on taking out an enemies supply, I will also want to research Versailles (sp?) before anyone else does, so he can't come in with auto-healing negating my best bonus! And if he DOES get that wonder up before me, I need to make a bee-line for it to take it out. Ahhhh... the strategy!


Thanks Again.

Last edited by Leaper on 14-05-2003 at 15:16

	15-05-2003 04:29									#6
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For your little strategy with the Russians, you might also want to build the Colliseum and Kremlin, which both greatly increase enemy attrition damage. Combine this with fully upgraded attrition (you can upgrade it at guard towers, I just learned that today), and you'll have a nation that can be amazingly hard to perform extended sieges on. Of course, it would be important to attack invading supply wagons, but also think about the positioning of your defenses in relation to your borders. Try to play with your main defense line (fortresses and the such) and your border such that there is a nice pocket for an attacking force to get stuck in for an extended period of time

	15-05-2003 05:00									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh yeah, i was thinking about that, colloseum+kremlin+russia = 600% attrition (over regular)

That's russia's "double attrition" plus kremlin "double attrition" plus colloseum "+50%" atrittion.

	15-05-2003 05:07									#8
	Support Apolyton

Are the modifiers cumulative like that, or would it just be 100% + 100% + 50% of the original value, such that attrition 'x' would become '3.5x' rather than 'x^3.5'?

	15-05-2003 07:07									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

nihilo, did you know that with TAB you can cycle thru upgrade buildings, including Libraries ?

That's how I found out that towers can do researches

	16-05-2003 03:08									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Good advice guys. I don't know how the numbers stack, which is why I requested earlier that it would be nice to see them to know how it works. (Especially if your opponent are Mongols with their 50% reduction... how does THAT work into the mix?)

Yes, it could get REALLY difficult to attack the Russians if you can't defend your supply trucks.

However, now that I know there are 2 wonders that essentially do the same thing... maybe I could combine another Civ. with that massive attrition and come up with even more strats. (But I must admit, the Russians are still #1 on my list to try).

~ Leaper