14-05-2003 04:45									#1
	Pirates or no pirates Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hi! Recently I bought CTP2. And the first thing I did was surfing the net searching for some Scenarios and Mods. I found this site and installed the Apolyton Pack. I didn't even play the unmoded version. And according this site I don't miss anything. But I have some questions. I'm playing the german version, and I don't know the original english expressions of the game, I hope I use them right. I have trading routes and in the trading manager some squares under the column with the pirate flag are colored. This means these routes are pirated. But when I save the game and load the same game at once the squares change to white! Is this some kind of bug? By the way I play on difficulty hard, the civilization who pirates me is watchful but admire me, I have a peace treaty with it and it has the Ghandy personality. For me it is odd that this civilization robs me. Is it behaving right? I hope somebody can help me.

	14-05-2003 14:38									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, you are right. This is a bug. This information is not being saved in the savegame.

For the other problem:

What might be the case, that one of your trade-routes is using the same path as somebodies else. So if this AI is pirating the traderoute of the other AI (which has nothing to do with you), your's is pirated as well.

You can try to get a not-pirating agreement with them, via the diplo-screen. This should help.............

Hope it helps you........

	15-05-2003 18:17									#3
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Thank you for your help. First I thought you were right that I was only pirated by "accident". I told him to stop pirating, but he refused, even when I threatend him with an embargo. But the next turn he asked me to stop the embargo and he agreed my offer to do that when he stops pirating. But later in the game he pirated me again. When I threatend him with war he stopped pirating, but only to pirate me again some turns later. This time he pirated even routes where I traded with my own cities and now not even threatening with war made him stop. He pirated up to five routes. Finally he conquered my latest city without declaring war. Maybe it was a bit provocative of me to found this city on his continent near his border. But nevertheless all this is no behavior I expect from a civilization, who is described as "diplomatic peacebringer" (or whatever it is called in the english version).

I can live with that, but I have no trust in the personality descriptions anymore. What bugs me more is the lack of important messages. There is no message when I'm being pirated. I have to check the trading manager every turn to be sure my trading routes are safe. I don't get a message when the satisfaction in one city is too low and there will be a riot. The message when the riots started is too late. Earlier in the game I checked the diplomacy manager and realized I'm at war with some civilization, only I can't remember I ever got a message telling me that. Can't all this be corrected in a mod? Finally it happend sometimes one civilization killed my diplomat and in the same turn it asked me for a peace treaty. I can't see the logic in that. Or is this some kind of "Oops, that was your diplomat running into the line of fire?"

CTP2 is still a good and complex game, but these stupid and completely unnecessary bugs spoil much.

	15-05-2003 20:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hi Bluescreen,

the personality description has some influence on the game. But also depends, which one you play. Are you using the standard out of the box game?

The easiest way to check the cities is via F2 (?) Stadt-manager, which shows you an overview. On standard game (s.a.) you are OK with 74/75, anything below and you risk riot.

Generaly speaking:

It sounds like you are running without any mod, so I suggest you install 'our' default one, the SAP (Super Aployton Pack).

Otherwise, there are also a lot of more MOD's. But start first with the SAP. Which brings me to the next question: DId you install the normal patch? It is prerequisite!!!!!!!!!!!

	15-05-2003 20:15									#5
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Sorry forgotten the link:

Click on here

For the patch

click here

	15-05-2003 23:09									#6
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Gilg - Bluescreen did say in his first post that he's already using the AP .

	16-05-2003 14:16									#7
	Put an end to popups!

OK, I admit..........I need new glasses

Just read through again and found it..........

One thing I forgotten to mentioned bluescreen:

Whenever you are using unconventional warfare (slaver/Bio-infector/.....) you are commiting a crime against the nation, which mean automatically war..........Might have been the case for you.

If a nation declares war to you, you are normally being told so.

And with taking the city without declaring war: ARen't you doing the same

If you have a treaty with them, you are normally save about stuff like this, but never count on

	16-05-2003 18:06									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've installed the official patch and SAP V2.0. I've just entered the modern age, so i have no bio-infectors or something like that. I once used slavers, but that was in a war long ago against the Russians, my problem is with the Arabs. And slavery is extinct for a long time. Or is this still a problem? Does slavery worsen the relations to all civilizations for such a long time?

I didn't take any cities without being in a war. Or do I still have to declare war when the Arabs attack me without declaring war? I've played along since my last posting. I've conquered some cities of the Arabs and then they offered me to end the war which I accepted. In the meantime I had a war with the Vikings who are neighbors of the Arabs and who also attacked me without a declaration of war. At least the Vikings have an aggressive personality. I also accepted their request for peace after conquering some of their cities. Now the Arabs attacked me again and - surprise - no war declaration. Maybe they are still offended I spied their cities during the first war.

I have another question. When I conquer a city I take it into my empire. When I look into the list of the satisfaction modifiers in the city there is an entry called "Belagerungsnot" in the german game. I'm sorry, I don't know the english translation. It disappears after some turns. It has a value of "+2". This would mean the people are happy that I conquered them? I'm confused, that makes no sense to me.

	16-05-2003 18:52									#9
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Bluescreen,

don't be afraid about the German version, I am using it too

ANY time you conquer a city, you will have Belagerungsnot, meaning that your new citizens don't yet like you, BUT after a few turns it will disappear from it's on.

It should normally be a negative modifier I'll have to check again on my comp.............

For the relation:

The AI keeps events longer in its mind. Some of the worse actions: destroying cities instead of taking them over (bloodbath/Blutbad)/ unconventinal warfare/slaving.......

Each time an action is performed it's worsen your reputation. This you can see in the diplo-screen, when choosing the nation and get their screen open.

Also don't forget, your negative reputation you might have build up, will take ages to be resolved, if you don't do anything positive, like gift/map exchange/.......


You don't have to declare war to attack/conquer, it will just increase your reputation (downwards )

Spying I hardly use, so can't comment on this one, but I think it shouldn't have any influence.......

	26-05-2003 01:59									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thank you, Gilgamesh.

Now I've finished my first CTP2 game. And I have some new questions and comments.

1) The game ended in the year 2200 and not 2300 as stated in the manual. Is this a change from the mod?

2) The lack of messages when one civ changes diplomatic relations bug me really. I was in alliance with one civ. I played several turns without caring for diplomacy. Then I looked in the diplomacy manager and was surprised to see the civ cancelled the alliance. The reason why I not even got a message is way beyond me.

3) I researched fusion power. But then I discovered I can't build fusion power plants, because I build the wonder who destroys all nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants, and fussion power plants can only be build when you have a nuclear power plant in the city. This bug is really annoying.

4) After this game I wanted to start a new one. I already have the Modswapper and the Apolyoton Pack. I installed the GoodMod and started "GoodMod for Apolyton Pack V2.0! Ultra-gigantic map". With this mod I started the 400x400 World map with 27 civs. After the game loaded CTP2 crashed. It also crashes when I start this world map with "GoodMod for Apolyton Pack V2.0! CTP2 the way it should be". but it doesn't crash when I start the map just with the Apolyton Pack or when I start a normal random map with GoodMod.

5) Is it possible to play a game on a computer generated random ultra gigantic map?

	26-05-2003 02:06									#11
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Oops. After posting this I read some other threads and welll... forget number 4.

	26-05-2003 02:15									#12
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1) Yes.

2) Strange, I think that should happen. Then again, it's been a while since that happened to me, so I could be wrong.

3) Hehe, don't think I ever got that far myself, but that's silly...

5) Sure, is there any reason to assume that wouldn't be possible?

	26-05-2003 13:23									#13
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3) You mean you have ever won (or lost ) before you reached the fusion power? Can I correct this bug? Or is there already a mod with this bug corrected?

5) So, how can I make CTP2 to create an ultra gigantic map?

	26-05-2003 14:07									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Bluescreen 3) You mean you have ever won (or lost ) before you reached the fusion power? Can I correct this bug? Or is there already a mod with this bug corrected?

You can correct it by changing the entry for fusion plants in APOL_buildings.txt (or whatever file) so that it doesn't require nuclear plants. It might be best to create a whole new Modswapper option if you're going to start fiddling with the files, though.

	26-05-2003 17:58									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

3) Yup, I usually already won by the time fusion power comes into play

5) Edit const.txt (or APOL_const.txt) to fit your needs.

There are the default values:

code:
MAP_SIZE_SMALL		26	52	2
MAP_SIZE_MEDIUM		48	96	2
MAP_SIZE_LARGE		64	128	2
MAP_SIZE_GIGANTIC	70	140	2

	26-05-2003 18:43									#16
	Got spare money?

3.) You take all the fun out of the game

There is no more fun, than having couple of stealth-bombers/dreadnoughts/tanks standing outside of somebody's else border and ask him for some treaty/whatever and he declines, even after threatening. I'll like sometimes to crush my enemies

Plus, I normally prefer a more peacefull development, I am more of a builder........

	26-05-2003 22:29									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Bluescreen 5) So, how can I make CTP2 to create an ultra gigantic map?

If you don't want to mess around with text files you can use GoodMod for ApolytonPack: Ultra Gigantic map and use the biggest map option available while you are starting a new game.

-Martin