14-05-2003 23:03									#1
	Seeker I Summon Thee! (need ESL teaching advice) Got spare money?

I'm setting up some interviews with ESL people in Taiwan and Korea since I want a backup incase I can't become an vile agent of American Imperialism (embassy job I want).
I don't have any experience (although I did some volunteer ESL tutoring for campus janitors) or real training so getting a good job might be a little tough (hopefully a good academic record at a good school will make up for at least some of that hopefully). What sort of things should I say to avoid coming across as an idiot? Don't know that much more than the basics (split shifts being evil for example), what else is good to know?

thanks!

	14-05-2003 23:30									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

China will take you as long as you have a bachelors and natively speak English. And there seems to be an even greater need than usual for teachers in China right now. You might also try to ask people in the know like at TEFL-China or Red-Dragon Inn. These list specifically are about China (not Taiwan or Korea), but have great reasources for ESL.

	14-05-2003 23:46									#3
	Put an end to popups!

thanks for the info. will look into them.

	15-05-2003 07:07									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

just one bump I guess...

	15-05-2003 07:55									#5
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so far so good, I've got a recruiting agency saying they're going to recommend me to a school in Inchon. Here's some bits of the contract, do they seem fair?

The Employee shall perform his/her duties for 40 hours per week, 5 days per week, Monday through Friday, OR Tuesday through Saturday.

Off days will be 2 consecutive days, either Saturday and Sunday OR Sunday and Monday.

At the sixty (60)-day point prior to the expiration of this Agreement, the Employer and the Employee may agree to extend the Employment.

In the event the Employer and Employee decide to extend the employment for another year, the Employee may receive up to a 200,000 won increase in salary the following year depending on the Employee’s evaluations of his/her performance.

can't teach anywhere else clause...

Monthly compensation in the amount of 2,000,000 Korean Won will be paid based on 25, 60-minute classes per workweek during the described working hours and days. You will be paid on the 10th of the month for the previous months services rendered.

Single housing with furnishings, as described below, will be supplied by the Employer.

Shared housing may also be provided at the request of the Employee. In this case, the Employee will receive a 200,000 won housing bonus. The Employee will share a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment win 1 or 2 other Topia Employees depending on how many bedrooms the apartment has. Each Employee will be provided his/her own private room.

The Employee agrees to pay (500,000won) as a housing management deposit.

60 Minute Classes: The Employee will teach 25 classes per week for the base salary. In the event the assigned class load exceeds 25 classes per week, overtime pay will be 24,000 won per class during normal working hours, and 27,000 won for classes falling outside of normal teaching hours as well as extra classes taught during the winter and summer intensive sessions.

Medical Insurance; 50% of the premium is paid by the Employee and 50% is paid by the Employer.

The Employee will be granted 10 days paid vacation. The Employer will schedule all 10 days of paid vacation to coincide with the school’s operating schedule.

Any help you could provide would be very very much appreciated.

	15-05-2003 08:38									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

woah...

OK first of all that's pretty much a standard contract.

Ask about sick days.

They should pay for air fare there and back.

Also, this will very important to you:

What are the actual hours you will be working each day?

What you want to avoid is a situation where you have to come in early, do a class, then wait around on a 3 hour "break" for your next shift.

this is the infamous 'split shift' and you DON'T want it.

Comfort note: Get your mailing address and send a package on ahead NOW, they can take quite a while to get there (i'm still waiting for my second).

Second: Because prices are low and your income is relatively high you'll feel 'rich'. Don't become a sot! Save conscietiously.

also Dave's ESL cafe is great for job posting, but beware the forum, there is a lot of misinformation and some of the 'smears' are just jerks.

Did you check out the blacklisted hagwon sites?

	15-05-2003 08:51									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

oh, and you're going to Incheon?

My friend Wade is going to a school in Bupyon.

Oh recruiters:

MAKE THEM GIVE YOU THE MANAGERS NUMBER AND TALK TO THE MANAGER IN PERSON.

Make sure the manager, whom you'll be working with everyday, has good english skills, is a good guy, etc.

Make sure that what the manager believes and what the recruiters are telling you is the same.

Given the current difficulty in getting foreigners to Korea, you're in a strong bargaining position.

The recruiters get about 1 mil Won for you from the school, btw...and they will say anything to get it. Make sure to verify anything they say about length of workday, pay, with the manager or you will regret it. Pin the manager down to specifics if you can, like 2-9, or 2-8.

Also, working saturdays is now unusual in hagwons.

Qualifications: An MA or TEFOL, TEFl, CELTA, etc should get you an extra 100 - 200 000 won a month.

	15-05-2003 08:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ah great. My summons was effective

Have two more jobs coming in from recruiting people, no contracts yet though.

quote: What are the actual hours you will be working each day?

Don't have the exact hours, but the webpage says no split shifts, will try to track the hours down. I think one that another recruiter is talking about has split shifts, so I'll keep an eye out for this.

quote: Because prices are low and your income is relatively high you'll feel 'rich'.

That's really good to hear. Wasn't too worried about this since I live pretty cheap, but its nice that I'll be able to save.

quote: also Dave's ESL cafe is great for job posting

Yeah its been my main source and has worked great so far, now if only the Taiwan people would start calling me...

quote: Did you check out the blacklisted hagwon sites?

No, where are they?

Oh and do you have every idea why every single job requires a photo? Seems a little strange.

Thank you enormously Seeker, its really appreciated.

	15-05-2003 08:59									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: oh, and you're going to Incheon? My friend Wade is going to a school in Bupyon.

I might, I'm talking to a number of recruiters ATM.

quote: MAKE THEM GIVE YOU THE MANAGERS NUMBER AND TALK TO THE MANAGER IN PERSON.

Ah, good advice. Will ask for it.

quote: Given the current difficulty in getting foreigners to Korea, you're in a strong bargaining position.

Yeah it seems so. I thought it would be tough due to not really being qualified at all, but they seem to be fighting over me...

quote: Qualifications: An MA or TEFOL, TEFl, CELTA, etc should get you an extra 100 - 200 000 won a month.

Yeah, don't have that, but don't need much money.

	15-05-2003 09:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Photos:

Ya know how they ask for 'passport sized photos'?

Make sure you bring another set of 4. You'll need them.

Korea is security conscious and they have trouble with our 'funny names'.*

You'll need to pick up your foreigner card when you get there, it's in Incheon near the hospital.

*also, some hagwon owners like want whitey only.

	15-05-2003 09:36									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: some hagwon owners like want whitey only

Had some suspicions of that
Oh well, I'm pretty much caspar the friendly boshko...

	15-05-2003 09:39									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Not Morocco? You might have to worry about the AIG, but you could regale them with tales fo the Moors in the Spanish Civil War.

	15-05-2003 17:26									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oh! Some hints I can think of now:

100% milk is about all they have in Korea if you eat cereal in the morning.

The coffee is all ****. Like in England during the war, 'fresh' means 'freshly opened'. Bring the Good Stuff to last you a while.

They don't bake in Korea. You may not even get the toaster oven some single appartments get. Buy a nice toaster over if you don't start with one.

Your 'gasu range-u' is self-lighting (so don't blow yourself up with a match) but a bit of a mule.

The TV supplied is ****. (typically).

Korea is the Land of Broadband, BUT not the land of low comp prices. Buy a good laptop with 220V converter (east asia), and then pay for VSDL connection. Your boss (wang ja neem) will do it for you if you ask nicely.

Don't let the recruiters pressure you into going to quickly. YOU don't have a time problem, THEY have a time problem.

Get the Swiffer Sweeper. It's great for cleaning the Korean floor. Get SOS pads for the bathroom lifeforms.

The Winter: Koreans south of Seoul almost never experience anything approaching a real Canadian winter. You can get away with just a hat and scarf, you don't need gloves, longjohns, etc.

Get RAID roachtraps AND spray. It's best to let them know who is the Dominant Lifeform right away.

Some Cultural Crap:

Try not to contradict your boss. Never in public. Don't get openly angry. This is 'loss of face' and the kids think a 'red' western face is very funny. Koreans love to squat. You'll find them squatting around at all times and places, an artifact of a chairless society.

Classroom Manner: Many hagwon owners expect westerners to be like clowns or babysitters or something...you've got to immediately make it clear who is boss and that you will tolerate ZERO nonsense. Make (pick up and drag) them stand outside the door for discipline. Initially, there is a honeymoon period where you'll be like 'my god, do these kids ever laugh?' just don't make them think they are your equal or it will be like 'get the **** out of my face' in a month I guarantee it.

Bodily Functions: Often, many restaurants bars loom salons, don't have bathrooms. There is one near by, or you can piss in the alley like a Real Korean. Some of the more traditional minded Korean men have an attitude toward 'natural' body functions that may seem a little unhygienic. The constant hawking and spitting, noseblowing, etc etc. You'll get used to it. Don't be surprised at some of the lack of privacy. Many koreans grow up with a whole family in a three room appartment or smaller, so they often don't remember to close the door to bathrooms, etc.

Privates: At somepoint, someone will approach you to do privates. These are illegal (no matter what they say) private lessons at high rates off school property. I wouldn't. Not because sometimes there are undercover narcs, but because no matter who it is, it gives them great leverage over you since they can boot you with forfeit of everything.

The Law: The Korean 'Law' doesn't seem to exist outside the newspaper and the TV. They have the Confucian 5 Relationships. They Don't EXPLICITY go around saying 'Confucius Say' or even know who the dude was, but if you'll do the research you'll see even the hordes of Protestant fundies who denounce confucius turning around and doing something so classically Confucian.

Korea is the most Confucian country and Confucianism is all about Harmonious Personal Relationships of Subservience.

As soon as they can, your students will ask these questions "Are you married?" "How Old are you?" This is a grammatical and cultural artifact so that they can know what verb endings in Korean to use, or to call you 'son seng neem' or 'ajoshi'. You don't have to answer! In fact, for the older kids, you might do better not to because of 'status' considerations.

	15-05-2003 18:06									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Very interesting seeker. Post more.

You could write a book of your funny anecdotes about a westerners life in Korea

	15-05-2003 20:10									#15
	Got spare money?

*bows before Seeker*
will have to buy a beer or two for you when I get there or something

quote: They don't bake in Korea.

Neither do I, as long as I have burner, a wok and a pot for curry I'm happy. How's Korean food? Have never gotten a chance to have any but I love all Asian food except Japanese, and I assume there's plenty of cheap places to get food (one of the best things about Bolivia, the dirt-cheap quail on the spit and the fried chicken places *drools*)

quote: Don't let the recruiters pressure you into going to quickly. YOU don't have a time problem, THEY have a time problem.

Yeah, they're really going after me now. Sending me e-mails about how X school wants to hire after hours after I sent them an e-mail just asking for information with a resume attached. Didn't think it would that hard to get a job w/o experience or training, but this is getting a little ridiculous...

quote: Koreans south of Seoul almost never experience anything approaching a real Canadian winter.

Or New England winters I expect. Oh well, will miss blizzards

quote: These are illegal (no matter what they say) private lessons at high rates off school property. I wouldn't.

Yeah, the contracts I've seen are very insistent about this. Don't have any pressing need for large amounts of money (well except for paying off $20K+ of student loans ) so I'll avoid 'em...

quote: Korea is the most Confucian country and Confucianism is all about Harmonious Personal Relationships of Subservience.

Hmmmml, maybe reading the Analects, Mencius and Hsun Tzu in my chinese philosphy class will be of some use after all...
Read a book about pentecostalism a while ago for a class and it talked about its explosion in Korea with mega-churches and whatnot. How big of a day-to-day presence are they, I don't have any special love for fundies (but from what little I know, pentacostals are relatively harmless...).

	16-05-2003 01:45									#16
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oh, one more thing. have one contract that give me a single but offers a 200,000 won/month housing allowance for sharing an apartment. this worth grabbing ya think?