15-05-2003 00:48									#1
	Formations Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Playing the demo and I have to say I'm hooked. Usually don't care for the RTS click fests but I keep coming back for more with this game.

I have a question about formations. I understand the different types; line, envelope etc.. but how do I keep these guys in formation when the enemy is near? My soldiers are too eager to fight and break ranks turning into a mass mob. I've messed with the aggression settings with no luck.

I have a feeling it's something to do with the aggression settings and the orders I'm giving them.

Any tips?

	15-05-2003 01:14									#2
	Put an end to popups!

are you using "move to" or "attack to" as the command for them?

if you use "attack to" you're ordering them to hunt down every last man, using move to will have them walk their path and engage anythign in range, without moving out of line.

	15-05-2003 01:27									#3
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Great!

I'll give that a try. I think I was using the 'attack to' command.

	15-05-2003 04:54									#4
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also if you set their stance to "stand ground" they won't move to attack anybody, they will just "stand grond" insted.

	15-05-2003 05:03									#5
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I was wondering about the same thing too...

I've played StarCraft too much and have got into the habit of always attack-moving when the option was present.

I did notice, though I haven't used it yet, that if you turn on the advanced command options, there is a 'move forward' command which simply advances your units, in formation, a short distance.

I do wonder about the effectiveness of formations, though. I understand that there is a difference in damange when attacking from rear and flank, but how often does this actually make a difference in relation to formations (particularly in an all-out melee)? In my experience, it's also quite difficult to manage anything but a frontal attack in most games, as the territories and cities are dispersed such that it's quite squarish, with an ally covering a particular flank or set of flanks. This becomes even more apparent when a major war front has already been created, and fighting is restricted to it for the most part for fear of either side losing any ground.

Maybe I just like 'limited forces' strategy games or scenarios a bit too much, the sort where you can't build new units or buildings that get in the way of troop movements across the battlefield...

	15-05-2003 07:02									#6
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foot units come in 3 men to help flanking (horse units being large enough to discern the flanks).

As for formations, I dont think they are effective, maybe with cannon time or on the slowest speed setting.

	15-05-2003 07:58									#7
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quote: Originally posted by MahoTsukai foot units come in 3 men to help flanking (horse units being large enough to discern the flanks). As for formations, I dont think they are effective, maybe with cannon time or on the slowest speed setting.

you haven't used them much then

	15-05-2003 11:59									#8
	Remove this text

i think what would be good is if they have more formations like "squad" formation where your army gets divided into small groups like useful for modern warfare (and it would be good to avoid splash damage), or something like the "mandible" formation used by Romans etc.

	15-05-2003 21:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy i think what would be good is if they have more formations like "squad" formation where your army gets divided into small groups like useful for modern warfare (and it would be good to avoid splash damage), or something like the "mandible" formation used by Romans etc.

the former can be achived by using several controls groups, but i am not familiar with the roman one.

care to elaborate?

	15-05-2003 23:03									#10
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Got some good practice in last night. The defensive stance seems to work the best for me. My problem wasn't in the actual movement of the formation from one place to another it was once you got the formation where you wanted it and let the enemy approach. Your soldiers will break ranks in haste to attack the enemy and turn into a mob only to be slaughtered as you can imagine all of the flanking bonuses occurring in a massed mob.

I've had great success with heavy infantry up front archers to the rear (in the same formation) and slinger type units or cav off to the side ready to counter any enemy archer units left out in the open. Artillery will bring up the rear along with the supply cart if in enemy territory.


Having a lot of fun with this game!

	15-05-2003 23:19									#11
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I noticed if you right click and you can position your troops and if you left click while holding the right button you can change formations that way.

I'm not sure how I could play the game without the pause button. Once you have so many cities it gets difficult. Guess I need to learn the hot keys.

	15-05-2003 23:50									#12
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the roman mandible formation consisted of blocks of men that form a staggered line like a checker board. each mandible (basically a squad) can be formed in deparate situations into independent fighting unit, such as that famous tortoise formation for a defensive posture, or a wedge forming what would looks like a giant saw blade for a more offensive posture. The power of the staggered line is that it make it much easier to remain coherent when advancing in rough terrain which the basic line/phalanx formations werent too good at. The other advantage of the staggered line is that forward mandibles could withdraw or the backwad mandibles forward depending on the situation to take on the brunt of the attack or advance when one mandible is exhausted or tires. It also forms many small natural flanking or wedge formation in the line. So that they can easily break through enemy lines or attack on three sides and uppity enemies that flooded into connect with the backwards mandibles.

http://webpages.charter.net/brueggeman/legions.html

Last edited by One_Dead_Villy on 16-05-2003 at 00:08

	15-05-2003 23:50									#13
	Put an end to popups!

oh as for making multiple control groups...yes well thats one way...but i mean what if u want a coherent army group and just want to separate and organize that group in this squad or platoon / mandible type formation quickly.

Last edited by One_Dead_Villy on 15-05-2003 at 23:59

	16-05-2003 03:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Darklighter Got some good practice in last night. The defensive stance seems to work the best for me. My problem wasn't in the actual movement of the formation from one place to another it was once you got the formation where you wanted it and let the enemy approach. Your soldiers will break ranks in haste to attack the enemy and turn into a mob only to be slaughtered as you can imagine all of the flanking bonuses occurring in a massed mob. Having a lot of fun with this game!

DL -

I also have the most luck with the defensive stance. However, when I am really concerned with "holding the line", I make sure that my front lines are entrenched, and use the cavalry and faster troops as my mobile forces. As far as armies becoming a mob, that only seems to happen with my melee soldiers. I am sorta glad that they won't just sit back and get slaughtered, but will attack back. As far as keeping everyone in formation when they attack... I have no idea if this is possible nor if it is realistic. But I am feelin' your pain on this at times.

~ Leaper

	16-05-2003 04:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Leaper As far as keeping everyone in formation when they attack... I have no idea if this is possible nor if it is realistic. But I am feelin' your pain on this at times. ~ Leaper

it's hard to do, but possible, and it's quite realistic.

	17-05-2003 01:19									#16
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I'm really liking the stand ground order in combo with the 'advance formation' order. You need to pay particular attention to which way your group is facing and their formation. Been waiting for this type of control for some time. Only 5 games in, so i'm sure there's alot to discover yet.

	22-05-2003 03:05									#17
	Got spare money?

I still am not clear on how to make an army move in formation, ie. maintaining the formation and moving at the speed of the slowest unit. Right clicking doesnt do it for me.

olaf

	22-05-2003 03:12									#18
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First, make sure advanced options are turned on. To do that, click one of the buttons below the minimap. Then, select your group and on the left toolbar, along with attack, move etc. there should be an advance formation button. I think also ctrl+ arrow keys will do it.