15-05-2003 01:01									#1
	'Stovepipe' icon? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As far as I can see, this isnt in the manual. When you increase the economic production slider for a planet you get at some point an orange 'stovepipe' like item. Is that increased pollution or inefficiency or what? If anyone out there knows, please inform me.

Live long and prosper.

	15-05-2003 02:08									#2
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It should be pollution.

	15-05-2003 03:14									#3
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That's the point at which you're spending more than enough to buy everything in the queue (whether real, as for military and planetary, or virtual, as for DEAs and improvements or terraforming).

It's an exclamation point. And yeah, that took me a bit to figure out myself...the joys of documentation.

	15-05-2003 10:16									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Stormhound That's the point at which you're spending more than enough to buy everything in the queue (whether real, as for military and planetary, or virtual, as for DEAs and improvements or terraforming). It's an exclamation point. And yeah, that took me a bit to figure out myself...the joys of documentation.

Correct. I pretty much figured it out early on by playing with the sliders after I first saw it. It also appears as though its not charging you any more if your sliders are higher than needed. Personally, I believe if the AI was doing its job then we shouldn't even be seeing the exclamation point.

	15-05-2003 11:50									#5
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nah, the AI is just showing off all the nifty features...

	16-05-2003 00:16									#6
	'Stovepipe' icon and Imperial Seat of Government Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Thank you, gentlemen. I was very interested in your replies about the significance of the 'stovepipe' icon on the production sliders.

May I now ask if I waste more money, as one inevitably does when one is accelerating production, though necessarily when one is in a hurry, with the 'stovepipe' icon showing? I had taken, recently, not knowing what the icon means. to making sure it doesnt show! So, is it good practice not to have the icon brought up?

Also, now that I have your attention, here is another question the manual doesnt apparently answer, can you have more than one sector seat of government per system and one Imperial seat of government per Empire. Given the option in the build queue, I have been trying to add as many seats of government, for system and Empire, thinking this will reduce 'unrest' but maybe I am just confusing my poor subjects by moving these things around!

I notice that sometimes when I am told I have built a new Imperial Seat of Government (or unknowingly just moved it around!) that the tab comes up blank on what I have just built. This happens with no other infrastructure enhancement which is signalled as built so I am thinking you can have only one Imperial Seat of Government per Empire?

I mean, as the programmers built each feature, would it have been too much to ask that they amended the manual accordingly? As some one on this board said, if I wanted a history of the Orion Empire I could look at it online, in the manual I want a clear and comprehensive exposition of how to play the game!

Live long and prosper.

	16-05-2003 01:49									#7
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Take it from an ex-programmer...you don't want programmers writing (or amending) the manuals.

You can only have one Imperial Seat of Government. The reason for building another is to move it out of harm's way, because losing it hurts a bunch unrest-wise.

Similarly, a system can have only one System Seat. You can move it as desired, but there can be only one.

I believe that stovepipe-money isn't wasted; it just goes back into the local treasury as unspent.

	16-05-2003 06:43									#8
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Many thanks for the info, Stormhound. Neither the manual or the game itself cautions you about that.

In the meantime, I have more serious problems! As you will see if you read the thread I have just submitted on 'Experiences with MOO3 crashing'! The task of a Space Emperor is not easy. One minute you are fighting off marauding aliens. The next you are anxiously watching to see if your machine will reboot after a game and systems crash!

Live long and prosper.

	16-05-2003 12:19									#9
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Welcome to Moo3.

Btw. as you crank up the slider you automatically see what your planatary budget is going to be next turn. Try cranking it up while the "stovepipe" icon is on, and you'll see the budget is not changing....

	17-05-2003 02:25									#10
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I have been considering your replies. It does look as if the 'stovepipe' icon has something to do with spending or pollution. Inefficient spending? If I crank up the slider to get the exclamation mark, though what I still prefer to call the 'stovepipe icon' (cos it looks more like a stovepipe!), does that mean I am spending too much.?One of your suggested I neednt worry about overspend as the money gets put back into the budget. Are you sure of that?

The sliders change colour to show increasing inefficiency in spending as you throw more dollars at the queue to get something built quickly. I have the feeling that the icon may have something to do with that and possibly associated increased costs in pollution. I say I have the feeling but that is all I have, the damn manual doesnt mention the import of this icon anywhere!

I wouldnt have known you could only have one sector seat of government per system and one imperial seat per empire if one of you hadnt kindly told me! As it has been said, we dont need a history of the Antarans in the manual, just a full exposition of how to play the game would have been nice!

Live long and prosper.

	17-05-2003 12:18									#11
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The stovepipe (I like that name; it certainly looks a lot like anything but an exclamation ) definitely means that you've spent all that is needed for the projects in the queue it appears next to; I'm 99% sure QS has confirmed that. I know I've also read the money goes back in the bank, and while I'm not sure if QS has confirmed that, it makes sense; that's what the game indicates, after all, and I don't know of any report-only errors for anything except a few DEAs.

	17-05-2003 20:46									#12
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Thanks, 'Kloreep'. I stand corrected.

It is a good thing some one has been able to work out what stuff like this means in the absence of any reference in the manual!

Live long and prosper.

	23-05-2003 03:48									#13
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quote: Personally, I believe if the AI was doing its job then we shouldn't even be seeing the exclamation point.

I don't think we should ever see it on the MBQ, but I can understand it popping up on the PBQ and RBQ. There will be times when those run out of items to build.

	23-05-2003 09:06									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Craig P. I don't think we should ever see it on the MBQ, but I can understand it popping up on the PBQ and RBQ. There will be times when those run out of items to build.

I've only seen the PBQ go blank when it runs out of things to build.

Everyone else: It is an exclamation point, not a stove pipe. To illustrate:
| - This is a stove pipe.
! - This is an exclamation point.
It is used as a warning that your spending levels are un-necessarily too high. Using a stove pipe for that purpose would make no sense don't you think? Perhaps a different font would make it clearer but until they provide that we'll just have to use our heads and a little logic here.

	24-05-2003 13:16									#15
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Well, Vince278, I still think it looks more like a stovepipe than an exclamation mark. But I like your point that if the AI was doing its job properly, we shouldnt see it.

	25-05-2003 10:07									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ChristopherC Well, Vince278, I still think it looks more like a stovepipe than an exclamation mark. But I like your point that if the AI was doing its job properly, we shouldnt see it.

Right. The AI seems to love adjusting other sliders. You would think it would do it in a useful way as well...

I don't think anyone has mentioned here yet what a stove-pipe is normally used for. I can't think of it off the top of my head. That might help but the issue to rest.

	28-05-2003 01:37									#17
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bad manual = active community

cheers

	28-05-2003 11:32									#18
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statusperfect -
You've just replied to every thread I'm active in. You must be as bored as I am.

	29-05-2003 02:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 statusperfect - You've just replied to every thread I'm active in. You must be as bored as I am.

yup

cheers

	29-05-2003 05:27									#20
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect yup cheers

	31-05-2003 11:26									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 I've only seen the PBQ go blank when it runs out of things to build. Everyone else: It is an exclamation point, not a stove pipe. To illustrate: | - This is a stove pipe. ! - This is an exclamation point. It is used as a warning that your spending levels are un-necessarily too high. Using a stove pipe for that purpose would make no sense don't you think? Perhaps a different font would make it clearer but until they provide that we'll just have to use our heads and a little logic here.

Actually it is a graphic. I have seen it changed to other things in some UI mods.

	01-06-2003 08:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx Actually it is a graphic. I have seen it changed to other things in some UI mods.

A graphic? Haven't considered that (unless its a graphic representation of an exclamation point ). I suppose in mods it can be changed to anything (how about a peace sign ).

I'm beginning to be amazed that we are still discussing punctuation after all this time.