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MahoTsukai
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I ant say the choice of nations was very good, thats so far my only complaint about the game.
Inca, bantu and aztec were all completely meaningless when compared to the Arab civ, and to an extent the Chosons (koreans).
I can't see why they didnt add em, beside political reasons, sucks a lot =/
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Madine
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Or Persia, or a southeastern asia civ =)
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Bridger
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They tried to get a good balance of nations from ALL parts of the world to start. The most nations from one region would be europe, which i think has 8 nations. Asia is next with 4, and africa+America each have 3.
Persia (or some arab civ) will almost certainly be in the Ex-Pack, and it makes sense to save a good civ for the Ex Pack to me.
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MahoTsukai
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yeah well, still having BOTH Inca and Aztecs is quite silly, in particular when you consider that this civ was light years ahead of bantu and the like...
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wilebill
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columbus, ohio
Feb 2003
time: 05:28
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By America, do we mean North American in the sense of Native Americans like the Kiowa, the Sioux, the Cherokee, the Iriquois; or do we mean the menagerie of post-Columbian European, African, Asian, and Middle Eastern immigrants who added themselves to what seems to have been a rather eclectic North American tribal mix already, and over the course of about four centuries have come to think of themselves as "Americans [sic]" The people of Canada and the South American nations are "Americans" also, remember.
It has always seemed absurd to me that "Americans" (ruled by Abe Lincoln back in the stone age no less) are included in Civ III since the history of what is now called the United States of America hardly goes back thousands of years! I bother to mention my perplexity only because I have seen several posts that seem to be from younger people expressing indignation that RON does not include "Americans." I have the uncomfortable feeling that they are unaware that the Pilgrims did not arrive in the New World in 4,000 BC!
By all means let us have "Americans" in the expansion, but we will at least be a little bit closer to history if we call them the Cherokee or the Iriquois?
And where may I ask are Israel, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Phoenicians, the Minoans ... it is not hard to imagine a RON expansion pack with 18 additional civilizations, maybe two expansion packs each with nine more civilizations!
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s_qwert63
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true bro true...
we get 3 shitty/useless civilisations such as the inca, maya, bantu and no arabs!
I WANT ARABS!
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RAW_OmarBKhatab
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By Arabs, you will have to mean it will begin from the time of Prophet Mohammed(saw). But, the thing is that, Muslim had very poor army still they own battles. The own battles not thru skill but thru devine help. Hmmm, how are u going to show devine help in RON? make it like AOM??!! Arab Muslims never had any great army. History proves it. Still with in 100 yr of Islam being introduced, Muslim Arabs conqured as much area that Romans conqured after 1000 years. Again, not with weapons, but with devine Help from Allah.
ANd today, Arab Muslim countries are very poor in military. I think it will be major balancing issue to add a arab Muslim country to RON.
BUT, Egypt is an Arab country which is in RON, Mongols, another mighty Muslim army in RON, Turks is yet another. But, I am suprised with the addition of Mongols to RON. Mongols have the same problem as Arabs. They were military powers but then they died off. So how do u show em in Information Age?
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olaf
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Not having an American side to play is a bad design decision. The US market is probably going to be their biggest, and there are plenty of units, buildings, wonders and techs that are clearly influenced by, or even in existence because of, the US. And to eliminate confusion, by American side, I mean the stars and stripes, the USA that was established in 1776.
So what if there was no USA in the ancient age? There isnt a Bantu or an Aztec nation now, and they sure as hell dont have nukes and stealth bombers. Going the other way, a lot of the civs that are included were not in existence 2000 years ago either. At least not in any culturally or politically organized sense.
olaf
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Mahdimael
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Sandy Eigo, CA, USA
May 2001
time: 05:28
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I think we can mean both. A North American Native civ would be far different from a "United States" civ. Keep in mind that the game has already extrapolated units for civilizations that either don't exist or are obscure (Bantu, Maya, Inca). One can make the case that those nations do exist as more modern ones, but it's not as though those nations are known for their fierce air forces or mortars.
It's easy to dismiss the role of the United States and (to a lesser degree) Canada in these types of games. Yet, it's fallacy to insinuate that age equates to significance. For most of the 20th century, the U.S. was a world power, and then a superpower- able to direct forces globally and temporally like never before. I think that that makes them a prime canditate for inclusion in a game. Consider also that they would qualify for existence in 5 of 8 of the Ages included in the game (Gunpowder-Info), and there's a strong case for inclusion.
quote:
Originally posted by wilebill
By America, do we mean North American in the sense of Native Americans like the Kiowa, the Sioux, the Cherokee, the Iriquois; or do we mean the menagerie of post-Columbian European, African, Asian, and Middle Eastern immigrants who added themselves to what seems to have been a rather eclectic North American tribal mix already, and over the course of about four centuries have come to think of themselves as "Americans [sic]" The people of Canada and the South American nations are "Americans" also, remember.
It has always seemed absurd to me that "Americans" (ruled by Abe Lincoln back in the stone age no less) are included in Civ III since the history of what is now called the United States of America hardly goes back thousands of years! I bother to mention my perplexity only because I have seen several posts that seem to be from younger people expressing indignation that RON does not include "Americans." I have the uncomfortable feeling that they are unaware that the Pilgrims did not arrive in the New World in 4,000 BC!
By all means let us have "Americans" in the expansion, but we will at least be a little bit closer to history if we call them the Cherokee or the Iriquois?
And where may I ask are Israel, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Phoenicians, the Minoans ... it is not hard to imagine a RON expansion pack with 18 additional civilizations, maybe two expansion packs each with nine more civilizations! |
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Darklighter
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The Turks are Muslim / Arab
The Egyptians where definitely not Muslim, their religion was based on polytheism (many different gods).
http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/religion.htm
The Mongols probably had some form of Buddhism.
Last edited by Darklighter on 15-05-2003 at 23:42
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MahoTsukai
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Wow so much false facts, whic is even astounding is that we are on APOLYTON, where most people did play civ and not starcraft 
Turks (anatolians, Hittites) are NOT arabs (who are closer to hebrews than anything else), nor are Persians (aryens). FYI there are 1 billion muslims and only 250 millions arabs, Arab is an ethnical group, Islam is a religion, its just as silly as considering every christian country to be of the same race.
Arab history didnt start with Mahomet (nobdoy watched Ben Hur here ?), and even if it did, that was 14 centuries ago ~620 AD.
As for you Mr Omar Khatab, please get you facts straight next time you reply; where did you read that Arabs had very poor armies, ye know the only non european race that occupied Iberia for EIGHT centuries, ye know the race that sent troops to fight at Poitier, France ?? For God's sake where did you read that Allah sent his glorious angels to help with invasions (and its divine not devine http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=devine ) ? How can you say that's a major issue to add arabs (which are over 20 countries FYI, heck its even called the arab world) while Inca, Maya & Aztecs are in the game and were destroyed by 400 conquistadors centuries ago ??
Also Ancient Egypt (as opposed to modern egypt which is indeed 80% arabs) wasnt arabic , this race doesnt exist anymore, and it was mixed with Greeks before arabs invaded it.
The only true -to an extent- fact is that Mongols were buddhist then muslims (thanks to merchants).
Anyway I recommend you to read some history *books* instead of history *comics* as you seem lacking in key parts.
PS: America *should* have been in the game. But as someone said I think they are keeping a couple of cool civs for an x-pack, still sucks to get 4-5 civs of forager/hunters (when compared to america and other major powers).
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Darklighter
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www.wordreference.com
Arab ['ærəb]
noun
1 a member of a Semitic people originally inhabiting Arabia, who spread throughout the Middle East, N Africa, and Spain during the seventh and eighth centuries
So, based on this definition and the post above it would be entirely incorrect to state " Where are the Arabs?" (topic subject) Since this is an ethnic group an not a civilization.
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MahoTsukai
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Also Civilization is quite a broad term:
civilization, civilisation [ˌsývýlaý'zeýʃən]
noun
1 a human society that has highly developed material and spiritual resources and a complex cultural, political, and legal organization; an advanced state in social development
2 the peoples or nations collectively who have achieved such a state
3 the total culture and way of life of a particular people, nation, region, or period
example: classical civilization
4 the process of bringing or achieving civilization
5 intellectual, cultural, and moral refinement
6 cities or populated areas, as contrasted with sparsely inhabited areas, deserts, etc
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s_qwert63
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quote:
Originally posted by wilebill
"we get 3 shitty/useless civilisations such as the inca, maya, bantu"
Whaaat? Blasphemy! Heresy! And besides you didn't even capitalize the names of these shitty/useless civilizations, which is being ungrammatical besides! Why, the famous anthropologists Ruth Benedict and Margaret Mead must be spinning in their graves!
Then too, every game needs some good targets, eh what! |
ok lets capitalize on the incas, aztecs and the mayans.
why capitalize on 3 civilisations from the same continent that no one gave a **** about?
they did not come into contact with anyone except for when the spanish came in and killed everyone.
they should reflect reality and be useless, the spanish just slaughtered them with muskets while they charged them with swords made out of stones and bamboo.
we should have one relevant civlisation like the Aztecs for example and thats it. 3 civlisations from that continent is just too much. I mean why not add Apaches or Commanches or some civilisations like that instead of Mayans or Incas.
and the arabs had way more impact on modern life in the world in general than all those 3 civlisations combined.
do you see inca empire on the map?
aztec empire? mayan empire? no!
but you can still see tons of arab countries in the middle east!
arabs invented modern maths, arabs spread their religion to over 1 billion people, unlike the aztecs/mayans/incas who just got slaughtered in a few decades.
besides you can have way more fun with arabs! prove me if im wrong but the aztecs/mayans/incas didnt even have horses! so how the hell would you expect them to rical anyone in th middle ages and how would they get tanks?
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Darklighter
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I'll pose this question.
Does it really matter what civs are in the game?
I'm going to pick the civ that has the bonuses that closely match my style of play. Eventually I'll end up trying them all out.
As for Misinformation and Information all in the same thread it's a fact of life. There is misinformation all around us. The real feat is sifting through the BS (media, peoples opinions vs. fact, etc..) to uncover the facts.
As for this thread, when you say 'where are the Arabs?' the original poster is actually referring to an ethic group that exists in many different countries. So are you asking to add say the member countries of the Arab League of Nations? Or is there a specific civilization that the original poster wants to have added to the game?
I guess in my opinion the original statement is to vague.
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Bridger
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The Inca in particular had a very advanced civilization. They built pyrimads damn near as big as the egyption ones. The myans had a calander and could predict solor/luner eclipses. The myan's calander is still acurate to this day.
The aztecs governed the largest area of the american continents in their time. They were a very powerful civilization that fell due to their religous beliefs (the europeans were gods!) and the diseases the europeans brought.
You cannot compare a civilization to the entire world in history, you must compare it to it's own region to discover if it was truely great. These 3 civs stood out among every civilization in the america's, that is why they are in the game.
The reseaon the U.S. isnt' in the game is because it wouldn't be posible to put it in the game. You just gonna have them pop in around enlightenement? How would that work?
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Bridger
The reseaon the U.S. isnt' in the game is because it wouldn't be posible to put it in the game. You just gonna have them pop in around enlightenement? How would that work? |
in 4000 BC there was (apparently) only a single "indo-european" language (and presumably people) residing somewhere in eastern europe/ukraine. sometime around 2000 BC Sanskrit speakers, greeks, Latins break off and go off on their respective late bronze age invasions. (hittites go off somewhat earlier) Germanics head northwest to Scandinavia, and celts move west to Germany/France/england.
Sometime around 500BC (?) Germans come south from Scandinavia, push celts west of the rhine. Gradually become distinctive from Scandinavians.
Till 500 AD "americans" "brits" and germans are all one civ. around 500 AD some Germans from north sea coast - frisia to Juteland - invade Briton - become A
anglo-saxons. 1100 years later some of these settle parts of new world.
Do americans belong in civ - no. But then neither do the english, germans, romans, etc.
4000 BC - start with Chinese, Sumerians, egypt, an "indo-european civ" and a "semitic" civ.
That leaves plenty for the new world, bantus, etc.
Do i really think this would be a good idea? No.
Best idea for historical realism - generic civs - but do you expect anyone to sell an RTS with generic civs? I dont.
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15-05-2003 02:24
Man I thought College was bad
The Aztecs had indoor plumbing way b4 the rest of the world. As for the Mayans, U have me stumped there.........
The Mighty Incan cavalry can ride the feared Llama into Battle
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