16-05-2003 02:10									#1
	CMN Query - required Reading for All Players Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Preplay, replay and postplay.

We all know that if you replay a turn, there is a "reload" message embedded in the game for the rest of that playing cycle, to alert other players that one has replayed the turn.

Not quite true. After a single player in a PBEM has played, saved, zipped and sent the turn, such a message is irrelevant if the turn is then replayed with different troop movements, testing for possible intruders by sending aircraft to their fuel limits, exploring in a different direction, etc.

Individual integrity is relied upon in PBEM's as there is no way of policing this.

Again, someone with access to 2 PCs can play out the turn innumerable times on one, then load and play the real turn on the other, with no reload message. Again, individual honesty is relied upon.

Now with multiplayers in each faction, the opportunity exists for the turn to be played simultaneously by all but the leader, with the scouting, etc., results being posted for the others. concensus is reached, then the team leader plays the official turn.

My query is:

As there is no way of policing this (other than the obvious givaway of a noodle moving 12 squares to hit the probe foil hiding in the fungus) should we:

1) rely on all players honesty and integrity?

2) say "what the heck" and let it be done in the name of "battlefield exercises"

3) restrict the opening and playing of any turn to just one designated player in each faction (with screenshots being supplied for commentary and input - somewhat unwieldy when number of bases reaches 40 or 50)

4) rely on your indefatigable CMN to plow thgrough every post on every thread to ensure that - to the extent possible - no multiple plays are happening (can always be circumvented by e-mails that leave me out of the loop, of course)

Comments?

Googlie

	16-05-2003 02:28									#2
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I would say a combination of 1 and 4. We should all be honest, but surely, if people are breaching it badly, like all playing then the leader playing, then it would be obvious just having a quick look at a few of their posts.

However, I think we can trust us all to be honest. If we aren't honest, it is much less fun, which is the overall aim. Thus, cheating is illogical (unless your aim is to win at all costs).

Last edited by Drogue on 16-05-2003 at 02:35

	16-05-2003 02:28									#3
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1) seems best but of course most difficult.

	16-05-2003 02:34									#4
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1) We should rely on our fellow player´s honesty AND
4) our indefatigable CMN should plow through EVERY thread for security reasons.


If any faction depends on cheating to survive, I can only feel sorry for them. Cheating (or "using all opportunities") decreases fun and devastates gameplay, especially for our full-hearted RP-Gamers!

At least at the Hive every cheater will be nerve-stapled until he isn´t able to control his own movements anymore...

	16-05-2003 02:44									#5
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A number of us have looked at this recently in the play mechanics thread or is it the game parameters thread? and with the same broad conclusions.
Option 3 is definitely out I feel. Option 4 would be officially too demanding on the CMN, but Googlie manages to look at a fair number of posts anyhow.

With option 1 we could ask all team members to sign up to a fair play charter. So if a team player suggests flying that noodle 12 spaces into the unknown to 74, 23, other team mates should query rationale.

Option 2 is a possibility and might seem to create a even battleground but it might favour the larger or more expansionist faction, through time, simply through them having more units exploring at minimum risk.

On the otherhand, if accepted as part of the game, all factions would have to take this into account and be on extra alert.


In my view, I feel it has to be a version of option 1 and self policed.

	16-05-2003 02:50									#6
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(not that the indefatigable CMN won't plough through every thread in any case, of course )

Has to be 1 though, surely. The only way it could possibly be policed is by Googlie placing a 'mole' in each of the factions' forums - and as we don't want to have to do that we may have to rely on the honour system. Isn't the first time, won't be the last. As for the others - with option 2 we are in danger of hybriding into a game that isn't SMAC, and option 3 means the only way for other members to see what's happening is through screenshots posted by the designated player - cumbersome for all involved, and tiresome for the lucky guy who gets to play and send the turn.

	16-05-2003 03:15									#7
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Definitely 1 with a bit of 4; personally I don't think anyone in these forums is low enough to cheat, but let Googlie monitor the private forums just incase.

	16-05-2003 03:17									#8
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Mark: You're from Northampton?

	16-05-2003 03:20									#9
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Yeah

	16-05-2003 03:38									#10
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we use 1) in ptw.

or we can do 5) Googlie plays all the turn and team leaders submit thier movelists.


1) is best. Im quite new to Smac forum, but in civ3 we know each other well enough to trust.

	16-05-2003 03:40									#11
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Mostly #1, as much of #4 as Googlie wants to do.

	16-05-2003 04:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Triped Mostly #1, as much of #4 as Googlie wants to do.

I agree.

I'll report any misdoings by my team.

	16-05-2003 04:53									#13
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1 and 4 would be the best idea, I think.

	16-05-2003 04:55									#14
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#1 in combination with 4. i rather like herc's idea of a "fair play charter"

	16-05-2003 05:23									#15
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All Hives unanimously agree to #4 = policing.

	16-05-2003 06:59									#16
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1 & 4... I really doubt we'll need ya, Googlie... but then maybe I'm overly optimistic.

	16-05-2003 07:47									#17
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I'll repeat what everybody else is saying by throwing my support behind option 1. Of course, Googlie drops in on the fora and threads anyway, so if he notices anything, he can bring it up. 2 is a bad option... it removes almost all sense of strategy. Why would one plan the sneak attack from the back when there's no advantage and it just draws out supply lines? Option 3 is no good... the other team members need to see the stuff too, otherwise it would be up to each team leader to post screenshots, and I don't think we want to place such an incovenience upon our ever-rational Prime Function. Besides, a really committed cheater could download it once and then email it to everyone else.

I honestly hope people here aren't so desparate to win that they cheat. All the fun is in the strategy and roleplaying.

	16-05-2003 12:22									#18
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1 & 4, but sometimes sending a noodle off in a straight route into the dark is the best scouting option. So it wouldn't ness. be a sign of cheating. I do it to uncover more of the map, for example.

-Jam

	16-05-2003 12:59									#19
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Just throwing my vote behind everyone who said #1 & some of #4...

	16-05-2003 17:56									#20
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Herc: Since it was you idea, like to draw up a fair play charter? Maybe with Googlie? If we can get one we will all ratify, so we know what is or is not allowed, it would help a lot IMHO.

	16-05-2003 18:46									#21
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I'm jumping on the 1 and 4 bandwagon. Let's not be suspicious by nature, but make note of repeated "miracles" and act if necessary,

	16-05-2003 22:00									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

OK - the concensus is self-policing, trusting in each others' integrity, but with a "hovering" CMN looking down benignly




Googlie