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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
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Time flies, and it's already near the deadline for game #4, so I will post the starts for game #5. With the approach of summer, the deadline for these games will be extended an extra week and will be Sunday, June 15. This time we will be playing as the Chinese.
Welcome to any newcomers. Anyone is welcome to join in by downloading the starts and playing one or both games. Below is the set of rules we use:
Rules used for Comparison Games
a) The human player may not tip any huts. What’s a rule without an exception, so in the rare situation where a hut may block a player’s movement, the player must save the game, after which the hut is tipped enough times until it produces a military unit or a nomad, which must then be immediately disbanded. Huts appearing in a radius of any city can be destroyed without reaping any benefit by placing a citizen on the hut’s tile while in the city display.
b) Since the game attempts to prevent caravan and freight re-homing, this exploit is not allowed. Any other ploy or exploit is allowed.
c) As a minimum each player should provide a summary of their game, using the format provided with each game start. Each player is also encouraged to keep a chronological log of their game, listing significant events. The addition of details describing the game and strategic decisions made while playing it add interest, so doing this is very much encouraged. Once a game is completed, a short game summary and the optional log should be posted in the game’s thread. Attached to this post should be a save of the game made showing a completed ship or one on the way to Alpha Centauri.
d) The player posting the best landing date before the deadline will be declared the winner of that game. If the date is the best so far attained in comparison games, it will become the new “official” record.
Summary Format
Governments
Monarchy
Republic
Democracy
Communism/Fundamentalism
Wonders
HG
MPE
ST
Colossus
Copernicus
Isaac's
Leo's
Michaelangelo's
Darwin's
SETI
Apollo
SSC stats
size 8
size 12
size 21
max. size
Techs
Trade
Invention
Railroad
Automobile
Nuclear Power
Computers
Flight
Space Flight
Key civ contact
AC arrival
The table following each game will contain these stats. Of course, you may not end up building all wonders listed, or use all governments, so just keep track of dates relevant to your own game. More detailed logs and/or written accounts of games will be at the players' discretion. Add as little or as much as you want to the required summary.
Here is the medium map start. A suitable SSC site can be found at (39,55), and it is the first one we've had featuring gems as a trade special.
 Attachment: ma_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
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Here's the large map start, with a suitable SSC site at (71,81). Two of its specials are hidden.
Attachment: wu_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).
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Zenon
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ELCG 5 Large Map, Chinese, 753 AD Landing
What can I say? This is my best landing date in an ELCG and it was achieved on a large map. In this game just about everything worked as well as I could imagine. A nice setting allowed a good start. Once the ship lines to Zulus and Germans and - late in the game - to the Romans were established trade was fantastic. City growth and SSC development were done according to plan. I could build the happiness wonders first and finished most of the city growth in 260 AD (SSC size 21, 2 cities size 10/12, 8 cities sizes 7/8). SSC development was completed with INC in 280 AD (size 25 in 380 AD). The AI´s were strong and offered excellent tech trades, with Invention, Gun Powder and Metallurgy even during Renaissance. I was very close to 2 techs a turn before automobile and from there on 2 techs a turn were never a question. The turn before Flight I delivered 15 freights I didn´t need for the tech pace and received over 8000 gold. On the launch turn I build a 17 – 8 – 3 spaceship and - without selling any improvements - had over 3000 gold left. Quite an experience!
The summary:
Governments
Monarchy 1850 BC
Republic 225 BC
Democracy 300 AD
Wonders
MPE 950 BC
HG 600 BC
Colossus 300 BC
Michaelangelo's 75 BC
ST 20 AD
JSB 180 AD
Copernicus 240 AD
Isaac's 280 AD
Darwin's 400 AD
SETI 660 AD
Apollo 720 AD
SSC stats
size 8 1 AD
size 12 80 AD
size 21 260 AD
size 25 380 AD
Techs
Trade 1250 BC
Invention 200 AD
Railroad 380 AD
Automobile 540 AD
Nuclear Power 620 AD
Computers 640 AD
Flight 660 AD
Space Flight 700 AD
Key civ contact 950 BC
AC arrival 753 AD
The launch sav
Attachment: wu_a0740.sav
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).
Last edited by Zenon on 12-06-2003 at 23:50
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Zenon
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ELCG 5 Large Map, Chinese, 753 AD Landing
BC
3900 Peking SSC, Shanghai,
3700 Alphabet
3350 Code of Laws,
2850 Bronce Working, Canton
2700 Nanking
2350 CB
2100 Tsingtao
2000 Xinjiang
1900 discover Monarchy
1850 Monarchy
1550 Currency
1500 Chengdu
1300 Hangchow
1250 Trade
1100 Tientsin, Tatung
975 MPE, Germans trade for Writing Map Making, maps, Aztecs trade for Literacy, maps,, Zulu Mystizism, maps, Sioux, Romans, maps,
925 Greeks, maps
800 Macao (11th)
675 dye Shanghai Frankfurt (d) 128g, copper to Frankfurt (d) 144g, trade for Construction, Pottery
650 Philosophy, Medicine, Anyang (12th)
625 Shantung (13th)
600 HG,
475 trade for seafaring, The wheel, mathematics
425 hides Chengdu Zimbabwe (d) 208g
375 Chinan Nova (14th)
350 trade for Banking
300 Colossus
275 Kaifeng Nova (15th)
250 trade for Engineering
225 Republic, wine Tientsin Intombe (d) 150g, Ningpo Nova (16th), trade for Polytheism
175 dye to Bapedi (d) 416g
150 silk Chengdu Leipzig (d) 396g
125 Monotheism, wine Hangchow Leipzig (d) 280g
100 wine Shanghai Bapedi (d) 420g, Paoting Col (17th)
75 MC, Sanitation, copper Hangchow Zimbabwe (d) 304g
50 11 cities celebrating,
25 SSC aqueduct, gems Nanking Zimbabwe (d) 572g, Yangchow Col (18th), trade for Iron Working
AD
1 size 8, University, trade for Feudalism
20 ST, hides to Ulundi (d) 656g, hides Chengdu Ulundi (d) 288g
40 Theory of Gravity, wine to Zimbabwe (d) 700g
60 napa col (19th), SSC sewerage
80 size 12, dye Tatung Hlobane (d) 376g
100 Theology, gems Anyang Bapedi (d) 336g, cloth to Zimbabwe 480g
120 Bridge Building, Sioux discover Invention (hut) Romans get it from GL, Aztecs discover Invention, Zulu allready have it, quite unusual!
140 SSC harbour, dye Chinan Tientsin (d) 108g, Issa Nova (20th), silk Ningpo SSC (d) 444g
160 copper Shantung Berlin (d) 368g
180 JSB, Economics, SSC library, dye Tsingtao Leipzig (d) 448g
200 copper to Zimbabwe (d) 726g, trade for Invention
220 Chemistry, SSC University, wine Nanking Zimbabwe (d) 390g,
240 Copernicus, dye Xinjiang Berlin (d) 228g, coal Ningpo Nanking (d) 107g
260 size 21, coal Macao Zimbabwe (d) 260g, celebration stops outside SSC, city sizes: 12, 10, 8(7), 7(4), 6, 5, others (4), trade for Navigation, Gun Powder
280 INC
300 Democracy, wool Shanghai Berlin (d) 296g, wine Tatung Zimbabwe (d) 465g
320 Physics, gems to Zimbabwe 336g, gems Kaifeng SSC 85g, copper Chinan Ulundi (d) 184g,
340 Explosives, dye Anyang Intombe (d) 108g, spices Ningpo SSC (d) 342g, coal Yangchow SSC 152g
360 Steam Engine, silk Paoting Col SSC (d) 453g, 360 Cunaxa Col (21st)
380 Railroad, SSC size 25, cloth Paoting SSC 105g, trade for metallurgy, Barb München bribed 260g (22nd),
400 Darwin´s, Industrialization, Corporation, wine to Zimbabwe (d) 564g, science 1282 (costs 1350)
420 Atomic Theory, coal Chengdu Zimbabwe (d) 380g, science 1349
440 Magnetism, gems to Zimbabwe 360g, beads Paoting SSC 108g
460 Refinery, wine Macao Zimbabwe (d) 335g, oil to Zimbabwe 360g, cloth Tientsin Berlin (d) 300g, wool Tatung Königsberg (d) 260g, wine Canton Zimbabwe (d) 420g
480 Electricity, Cremta Col (23rd), gold Hangchow Wounded Knee (d) 270g, science 1527 (SSC 810)
500 Combustion, beads Xinjiang Zimbabwe 186g, copper Tsingtao Ulundi (d) 286g, dye Kaifeng SSC 62g
520 Steel, Tura Chan (24th), silk Issa Zimbabwe(d) 204g, coal Hangchow Zimbabwe (d) 365g
540 Automobile, SSC, Chengdu superhighways, Electronics, silk Chengdu Bapedi (d) 548g, hides to Ulundi (d) 1130g, science 1937 (SSC 1140), Genyang Col (25th), trade for horse riding,
560 Chivalry, Leadership, München, Nanking, Shanghai superhighways, silver München SSC (d) 1194g, gems Shanghai Cedar Creek (d) 602g, oil Anyang SSC 180g all trade routes unblocked, Shihezi Col (26th), Vengchan Col (27th)
580 Mass Production, Conscription, Hangchow Macao Ningpo superhighways, dye to Cumae (d) 1237g, wine Hangchow Zimbabwe (d) 675g
600 Tactics, Nuclear Fission, Caoying Canying Tatung Tientsin superhighways, Salyang Col (28th), spices Caoyang SSC (d) 1140g, spices München SSC (d) 1280g, gold Chengdu Zimbabwe 286g
620 Machine Tools, Nuclear Power, Genyang Tura Chan Napa Tsingtao superhighways, Liyang Col (29th), Halong Romae (30th), silver to Cumae (d) 1322g, dye to Rome (d) 1322g, gems Chinan Zimbabwe (d) 710g
640 Miniturization, Computers, Vengchan Shihezi Yangchow superhighways, silk Chengdu Leipzig (d) 638g, cloth Tsingtao Tura Chan (d) 334g, spices Vengchan SSC (d) 1308g, dye Shanghai Veii (d) 636g, gold Canying Nanking (d) 520g, beads Tientsin Veii (d) 498g, silk Genyang Shanghai (d) 696g, coal Shihezi Shanghai (d) 544g, cloth Macao Rome (d) 810g, oil Canying SSC (d) 1363g, salt Yangchow SSC 430g, dye Canying SSC 390g, dye Tura Chan SSC 448g, oil Chengdu Rome 387g, gold Chinan Rome 336g, science 2304, gold 7149
660 Flight, SETI Program, Radio, Cremta superhighways, silver to Cremta (d) 567g, gold shanghai Caoying (d) 427g, dye to Bapedi (d) 616g, science 2830
680 Advanced Flight, Laser, Halong Romae, Cunyang superhighways, gems Shanghai Cumae (d) 792g, silk Halong Nanking (d) 568g, oil Yangchow SSC 219g
700 Rocketry, Space Flight, Liyang superhighways, silver to Cumae (d) 1010g, dye to Leipzig (d) 832g, copper Macao Berlin (d) 196g, silk Chengdu Bapedi (d) 432g, trade for Masonry
720 Plastics, Superconductor, Apollo Program, Salyang superhighways, spices Lyang SSC (d) 608g, coal Salyang SSC (d) 470g
740 Fusion Power, Launch 17 – 4 – 4 – 1 – 1 – 1
753 AC Landing
Zenon
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
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Wow! Nice going Zenon. You have figured out how to play it best on large maps!
I'm afraid I have not kept up this this set of games. On the medium map my third city was destroyed by barbs very early and they went on creating enough havoc to force me to resign it early without a chance of doing very well.
Meanwhile I have been quite distracted with the recent release of Rise of Nations and am now fully engrossed in learning that game, so will not have a chance to play or complete a large map game here, though I doubt very much I could come close to Zenon's great result if I were to try it. My apologies to Zenon and any others who may be playing, for not keeping up with this latest set of EL games.
However, I think a few others are also looking into RoN, as I have not seen any other news of any games in progress.
Again, super result Zenon! I will take a look at your save and log to see what I can learn from them.
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rjmatsleepers
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Great result Zenon. Only 1 military unit in the whole empire and all of the AI love you! Can't be bad.
RJM at Sleepers
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Zenon
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Thank´s RJM! In the early game I gad a few phalanxes to defend against barbarians, but in this game they never showed up. in the late game it wuoldn´t have made a difference if I had lost one of the 30 cities.
Zenon
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SlowThinker
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homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:28
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Zenon,
Style of your game is really similar to my ELG #2. But I would suppose I will get a bigger advantage because of keeping cities in disorder via Xinning... I thing I can find some new stupidities in my game.
I was much faster with Michelangelo and celebrating, also I celebrated 16 cities and you only 11, but then I lost the margin... I must compare our logs more in detail. Unfortunately, maps are different... (BTW, it would be good to count number of on-path techs and then mark number of techs passed for every year. Otherwise it is complicated to compare a progress of two logs if techs are mixed up).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
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Well, I guess a comparison chart is not needed this time, since Zenon was the only one able to complete a game. So far it's been great fun hosting these EL games, but it looks like its time for a break, since interest has waned.
Zenon,
You are too modest and have definitely found the best way so far for playing large maps. It may be that your approach will improve medium map dates, too, leading to pre 500 AD landings. I had suspected that there was not enough time for your approach to compete with my own, but have been proven wrong. Congrats on leading the way to an important advance in EL strategy. Your sudden appearance on these forums and the brilliance of your play have sometimes made me wonder whether or not Samson had returned under an elaborate disguise! If so, don't worry, the secret is safe with me!
ST,
I have followed with interest your EL game #2. You may not have finished by the deadline, but you share much of the credit along with Zenon, SG(2), Cliff, Elephant, Monk and other players in advancing EL strategy beyond the original ideas presented in my guide. I am afraid much of its advice is already obsolete, so welcome you and any others that are interested to append your insights to that thread. You may also want to try your approach using the start in EL #4 to see if you can crack that 500 AD barrier!
To summarize, it looks like these first five EL comparison games have modified EL strategy as follows:
Marco Polo's Embassy is vital
In games where huts are not a factor, there is not as much incentive to explore. Players have found that building MPE povides quicker contact and and more than pays for itself in the additional techs made available through AI research and trades.
Early Monarchy and more secondary city development often outperforms a bare bones Early Republic
By allowing chances for tribute and by being the most favorable government for building up cities early in the game, early Monarchy, when coupled with an approach putting more emphasis on increasing the number and size of secondary cities, seems to outperform early Republic. The advantage of faster research in early Republic diminishes when put up against a strategy coupling MPE and early Monarchy. It looks like Republic is best postponed until Michaelangelo's Chapel is built and all cities are ready to celebrate up in size. There appears to be enough time to acquire and support the off path techs needed for MC.
However, early Republic might still be the way to go in games having the best SSC sites and where the human player starts on a separate island, such as EL #4.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:28
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Hurray for Marco Polo!
Another benefit of MPE is that other civs will trade maps with only Cordial attitudes, assuming no prior Enraged mishaps.
I currently dont go for PolyTheism to get Mikes, I build Oracle ASAP and let the other civs research MT, then I trade for or steal it and build MC in one turn. If I am not researching MT Oracle lasts much longer.
I second ST's appreciation for the cooperative nature of the EL games. I was weeks behind on EL#1-3, and never finished #4 (although it was going pretty well). Two week-long absences this month have kept me away from #5, but I was hoping to catch up later. Will there be a #6?
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:28
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First Samuel 17: It was David who defeated Goliath. Samson freed the Israelites from the Philistines for a time, but then Delilah tricked him into revealing his weakness and he was captured, blinded and imprisoned. He came back in a last farewell, though - he destroyed the Philistine temple with many rulers inside, pulling it down on himself (Judges 13-16).
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16-05-2003 18:03
With so many TBS Players attracted to this game and reading the positive comments in the forum I decided to order a copy, too. I am afraid there is some distraction ahead for me, too.
But I certainly appreciate the comment. 
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