21-05-2003 01:24									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Since "sins" are actions against the will of the Judeo-Christianity god, whom should be rejected with the rest of neolithic supersititions, therefore there is nothing such as a sin.

neolithic??? early iron age for sure, at least get your archaelogy right.

	21-05-2003 01:28									#62
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my definition of sin:

Something that you do even though you know you shouldn'y based on any kind of belief (personal or shared) system. I.e. I say "I'm not going to eat bananas today", eating a banana on that day would then be a sin, a small one mind you, I'd probably regret that I couldn't live up to my own standards, but I wouldn't regret it that much.

	21-05-2003 01:30									#63
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LoM:

quote: Alcohol is sinful - Islam, and fundamentalist Protestantism.

Islam only. Fundamentalist Protestantism should teach that alcohol is only sinful when used to excess.

"Blessed is the man who is not condemned by what he approves."

quote: There are some religions where marital sex is not only not sinful, but is a good thing, even when not conceiving a child - and where use of alcohol is permitted - in moderation and with appropriate blessings very much an acceptable pleasure.

Yes. Christianity.

	21-05-2003 01:37									#64
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 LoM: Yes. Christianity.

Ok - historically christians disapproved of doing "it" on Sunday to the point where back when people believed that a baby was born on the same day it was conceived, married couples who had a baby on Sunday were subject to punishment. Whereas among Jews a man is obliged to his wife to do "it" on friday night, assuming she wants it (and theres no time of month issue) Maybe a different view of the sabbath day, but also a different view of sex i think.

your rejection of the Augustinian view of sex may be reconcilable with the rest of fundamentalist Christianity, but its definitely a modern innovation. I might as well point out Conservative Judaism's increasing tolerance for homosexuality - probably justifiable (to some extent) in Jewish law, but misleading as charecterizing the tradition.

	21-05-2003 01:39									#65
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LOTM: Is masterbation a sin?

	21-05-2003 01:41									#66
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"
Islam only. Fundamentalist Protestantism should teach that alcohol is only sinful when used to excess."

Right, unfortunately there are some denominations such as the Baptists that view drinking as a sin and assume that all of that society will hold it up as the moral standard. A similar thing happened recently with Bennet and gambling, which he was criticize for even though his religion (Catholicism) does not hold gambling as nessecarily sinful.

Let's not let the baptists define all of society's definition of right and wrong.


"Sex is sinful - and is only permitted in marriage if youre consciously trying to conceive a child without lustful thoughts - thats St. Augustine, i beleive. "

Among Catholics in America that view is not widely held, irregardless of magisterium teaching.

	21-05-2003 01:45									#67
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quote: [SIZE=1] Who the **** needs sin when there's pleasures like these?

Abert, You have a great future if you drop your fascism and Nazi handle. Since you like to comment on the pleasures of the decadent American, your better moniker would be Petronius, arbiter of taste and elegance at the court of Nero.

http://www.gis.net/~kcollins/petron/satyr/complete.html

	21-05-2003 01:51									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Japher LOTM: Is masterbation a sin?

I suppose just about all orthodox authorities would say so, I dont know the Conservative position off the top of my head. I would note also that the orthodox view on these matters is not unanimous - while there are many positive views in the literature, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, taken as authority by many ultraorthodox jews is particularly puritanical.

	21-05-2003 01:55									#69
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im not saying that the majority of western christians, either protestant or Catholic, actively subscribe to the Augustinian view, but that its part of the background of western civilization - the notion that sex in general is sinful, and that marriage is a concession to sinful human nature, and that a positive view of sexuality is implicitly pagan or atheist seems to haunt the western imagination.

	21-05-2003 02:08									#70
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quote: Right, unfortunately there are some denominations such as the Baptists that view drinking as a sin and assume that all of that society will hold it up as the moral standard.

Chalk my views up to 'Catholic' influences.

Actually, Baptists should teach this as well, though don't be surprised if they admit they don't drink themselves.

quote: and that a positive view of sexuality is implicitly pagan or atheist seems to haunt the western imagination.

LotM:

I'm afraid I'm not up on my Augustine. Where is this opinion attributed to Augustine?

	21-05-2003 02:21									#71
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i read it in a book on private life in classical and early medieval times. I believe it was the confessions that was quoted, but im not sure.

	21-05-2003 03:09									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 The children themselves aren't sinful, but children CAN be concieved in sin. Example: Prositution producing a baby.

The conception itself isn't sinful, it's merely a biological process. ****ging a prostitute is.