17-05-2003 23:36									#1
	A New Kind of Scenario Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

With my computer being shot, i've been puttering around with some ideas for unique and new kinds of scenarios. How the Civ2 scenario experience could be expanded, like was done when such groundbreaking material as Red Front or Moria were introduced.

These scenarios helped expand Civ2's popularity and longevity well beyond that of any other game on the market.

So, I sat down and designed a new scneario based on ideas drawn mainly from Moria, Slash and Burn and some suggestions I saw floating around here. A scenario that is for multiplayer or PBEM games only (as the AI is utterly stupid in this case). And a scenario that focuses on non-combat strategies.

The result was Vineyards - A Game of Wine Competition

I'm a bit of a wine conniseur, and I enjoy growing my own grapes. I also have several friends that make their own wine. I'm hardly an expert, but the idea intrigued me.

The concept of the scenario is simple; control one of four vineyards. Human players control all four in an MP or PBEM game. Use Lumberjacks to clear forests away from the fields. Then send your Caretakers out to plant Young Vineyards. Cultivate them for more revenue into Vineyards and Old Vines. Build more branches to your company for more revenue. Send out your Lawyers to bribe enemy branches and corner the wine market. There are, naturally, many other aspects to the scenario, which are explained in the readme or via an events-distributed tutorial.

I have playtested this myself, and hopefully addressed all issues. But it is by far not a thorough playtest. It's nothing like the grandeur of Moria, but it does present a unique strategy for players. I hope some of you here will be able to get an MP or PBEM game going and try this out.

You can download the scenario from my website, at the URL below.
http://www.geocities.com/war_void/bestonet.html

Note, this works on classic MGE, meaning no add-ons or upgrades are required.

	18-05-2003 00:09									#2
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WarVoid,

Very interesting idea. I thought up something similar awhile ago, ie lumberjacks cutting down trees, but you've really taken it to a whole new level. Very nice indeed.

What many people don't realize or care to touch upon is how nubile the Civ2 engine really is. Sure, the game is basically based upon combat between nations, but there is so much more you can do with it. I think a great scenario variant that could be a hit is one based on economic goals, rathet than just war or historical events. Your vineyards scenario is a great example.

Keep up the good work

	19-05-2003 19:36									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

very interesting idea, I've download the scenario, and this is something completely different
good work

	19-05-2003 20:27									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I really like this scenario, I'd be more than happy to participate in a pbem of it

One thing though, the cemetary and sampling house improvements doesnt actually work currently

	19-05-2003 20:31									#5
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This I gotta see

	19-05-2003 21:14									#6
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After playing some more I'd recomend increasing the costs for everything after just a few turns you're bathing in money (10 000 gold+) unless one is carefull the limit might be reached.

	19-05-2003 21:23									#7
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I'll drink to this one!

	19-05-2003 22:35									#8
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Sounds interesting, though since I'm writing from an at-school computer now I can't say how good it is. I've thought of using it to simulate a swiss family robinson type thing(with enemy civs representing wild animals), but nothing like that. I'll have to give it a shot.

	24-05-2003 08:05									#9
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'll look into those problems you encountered, Henrik. This is really just the first version, so I don't know how fast the money will actually accumulate (limit is 30,000 btw).

Unit costs for trees are extremely high (3,000+) so bribing them is really pointless. The Papa (aka old man with a shotgun defending the farm) is also expensive, but is bribeable in order to takeover an enemy city. Doing this to multiple enemy cities and units will quickly drain your revenues. Or so, that's how it's supposed to work...

Playing against the AI is really boring. They tend to only build Caretakers and not chop down the trees. Against a human player though, it will probably be much different.

Elok - I've also been toying with similar ideas; Robinson Crusoe, Swiss Family Robinson, Castaway and Treasure Island are all possibilities for cool scenarios similar in design to Vineyards.

My computer is currently broken, so I apologise for the delayed responses. I'll try to get here more often.

	27-05-2003 11:59									#10
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Wow, that was addicting. I think I just played 3 hours straight! Victory over CEO AI occured in July 2018, although I'm sure I could have gone much faster. I tried bringing roads with me over the mountains, and at times I forgot whether I was playing for vineyards in France or playing railroad tycoon 2, trying to push the Union Pacific Line over the Rockies!

I saw one snake the entire game, and not a single Bear, I don't know if there were supposed to be so few, but the messages kept popping up frequently at the begining of the game, less so towards the end.

My ending treasury was 36566
I was doing 6707 Income per turn with 290 in costs but I could easily have driven that higher if I had actually tried to manage my cities

	27-05-2003 22:36									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Alas, MGE. I only have FW. Looks like I won't be able to try it after all. Anyway, how are you simulating trees? Are they a kind of terrain only lumberjacks can transform, or a type of barbarian air unit only lumberjacks can attack? You could try switching to one or the other. Or:
1. Have a "weed" civ.
2. Give them lots of very slow-moving carrier air units with an offense and role of 0, to simulate encroaching weeds.
3. Lumberjack fighters take out the weeds, allowing cultivation of squares they would otherwise block, yadda yadda.
4. Replace horsemen and chariots with barbarian "bumper crops" that can be killed for instant gold. Preferably they would be immobile, and since barbarians tend to do their uprising near cities, there would be extra motive to kill the bloody weeds so they don't take up barbarian popup real estate.
Just some ideas. Don't know if you've tried them. Dad-blasted MGE mutter mutter mutter...

	28-05-2003 01:50									#12
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Trees are simulated as immobile barbarian units. Only lumberjacks have an attack above 0.
There are snakes and bears that encroach upon your land everyso often instead of weeds.

Bumper crops aren't really needed because cities have such high trade bonuses. My larger cities had around 400 trade generated with many, many tax collectors boosting taxes even higher

	31-05-2003 05:31									#13
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There are "supposed" to be numerous snakes and bears popping up to tear up your crops and attack your Caretakers and Lumberjacks. I'll have to look into that. *mumbles*

I think for version 2 I may add in more obstacles. Like rock "units" that need to be blasted out of the way by a Miner unit that can only attack the rock. Maybe more wild animals, like deer, rabbits, bugs, etc.. More stuff to annoy the player. I may lower the incomes too, but then, their high due to the intended fight against a human opponent.

The intent of the scenario was to make it a bit like Railroad Tycoon, and also to do a new type of scenario.

Anyways, i'm really glad you liked the scenario, H Tower. Thanks for all your help.

Elok - One word for you - KAZAA *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*

	31-05-2003 20:45									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ah, I'm guessing you'll just turn the trees into air units and give the rocks ludicrously high defense to do that?
Try an "herbicide" nuke, that kills trees and pollutes vinyards at the same time. You'd just have to give every city an SDI to prevent its offensive use. Too much herbicide makes "barren earth" swamp squares pop up or something.
I'd make the bugs aphids, or whatever chews on or messes up grapevines the most. Of course, then you need exterminators with submarine-viewing capabilities?
I assume you already have plenty of diplomat and caravan units?
And are you exploiting engineers to make researchable, improved caretakers? How about wonders? Are the government types fixed differently for the four major vinyards? Different administrations have different strengths. The commie vinyard could have high corruption but be able to hire a lot of hands without support and would be naturally superior at sabotage. The old family owned fundie civ doesn't need to provide worker bonuses and doesn't get suspected for hostile activities. The democrats are hardasses who overwork their people. Said people get upset easily but make a buttload of cash. Et cetera.
Just some ideas.