21-05-2003 19:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage I will post there some other screenshots about another game (Egypt, standard map). I wiped out the Mongols, Chinese and Spanish from my continent by AD300.

So you should have no problem with a warmonger-ish AU game.

quote: Having stated the above, just explain please how you hope to win on a huge map, archipelago, 24 civs without some lebensraum, i.e. without going to war?

You did so just fine in the Huge map AU (apart from taking out the Babs, if I recall). My point is not that you're afraid to go to war, it's that for some reason you're against warmonger themes. My guess is that you always want to have time to build up to your satisfaction before going for the kill. Just a guess. If such games are more fun for you, so be it. But the point of AU is to learn by exploring the different facets of Civ3.

quote: Then of course, I could ask you 'will you not get tired of your civ-slaughter games?'

Probably, if all my games were like that, but they're not. Like I said, AU tries to be as diverse as possible (which is why I like it and have not gotten bored with it yet).


Dominae

	22-05-2003 13:58									#32
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Why 5? Why not 6 or 7? Is there any history behind that?

My second question can be a spoiler to the 5CC AU: What city placement are you going to use? I would say minimum is the optimal c.p. The strategy for the city placement would be totally different from the "standard" game. I mean you are not trying to make 1st, 2nd, 3rd ring of cities around the capital.... Are you goint to make a "continous empire" or are you going to place 4 cities on strategic places (the 5th one maybe on second island)?

Could be an interresting game...

cumi



P.S.:...hm almost 2 questions...

	22-05-2003 15:11									#33
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Dominae,

OK, point given and taken.
Let's see what the next AU will bring...

	22-05-2003 16:21									#34
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I've voted Total War. If understood correctly we'll be supposed to wage war all time, to never settle for peace, not requiring techs by victories? Especially this last one razes problems.

Sounds fun and ... difficult. So far my latest strategy is requiring techs by waging wars, settling peace, waging war with other civ, peace, waging war with first civ and so on, till I've conquered all required techs to start researching myself.
Also wonder if republic/democracy would be possible due to war weariness, I doubt it.

As I've only limited game time, I also like my games to be ... spicy.

AJ

	23-05-2003 08:26									#35
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It's a close race between Total War and 5CC (both warmongering scenarios...interesting). Vote now if you have not done so already and have a preference!


Dominae

	23-05-2003 08:28									#36
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quote: Originally posted by cumi Why 5? Why not 6 or 7? Is there any history behind that?

Because a hand has five fingers (usually)...

quote: My second question can be a spoiler to the 5CC AU: What city placement are you going to use?

Good question. Let's wait until we play the scenario to answer it (read: I'm not sure).


Dominae

	23-05-2003 09:48									#37
	Re: 5-city challege... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by cumi Why 5? Why not 6 or 7? Is there any history behind that?

In addition to matching the fingers on most people's hands, five cities allow you to build the Wall Street, Battlefield Medicine, and Strategic Missile Defense. They also allow you to build an Army (four cities do that, actually).

	23-05-2003 11:31									#38
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The weekend is almost here (and I'm at home with a fever anyway). Where is the game?

	23-05-2003 17:31									#39
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I'll vote 5CC. The last time I played in an Apolyton event was back in early 2000. Please LMK what patches are best for the Civ3 base and the PTW expansion. Thanks!

Edit:
Forgot to ask a couple things. We can select any civ, yes? Also, what map size? Is Emperor the standard difficulty level for these most of the time? Thanks!

	23-05-2003 18:19									#40
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quote: Originally posted by inca911 Forgot to ask a couple things. We can select any civ, yes? Also, what map size? Is Emperor the standard difficulty level for these most of the time? Thanks!

Tune in to the scenario thread when it gets set up for all the specifics.

You can play on any level of difficulty you like. No one minds. Most players are Monarch and Emperor (with some Regent that should really move up!).


Dominae

	23-05-2003 19:10									#41
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I'm all into this strategy forum, now. Looking forward to the 5CC. I can see that the 5CC may be harder than OCC. For OCC your goals are very limited; therefore your strategy is more straight forward. With 5CC, there are more options and you are more of a threat to the AI.

I have a general question. As far as city count, do you count at the end of the turn? For example with 5CC, is the rule, "A turn cannot end with more than 5 cities."

The question involves the strategy of capturing a city and then selling or gifting to an AI civ. Your city count goes up to 6, but it drops to the required 5 by the end of the turn.

	23-05-2003 19:28									#42
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Currently we've got 7 for Total War and 7 for 5CC. Uh-oh.

lmtoops, I'm not sure what the exact rules are for 5CC (and if there are any). Just like we did in OCC, I would suggest that you can never ever at any time have over 5 cities. This does away with loads of problems that I just know will crop up.


Dominae

	23-05-2003 19:38									#43
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When it comes to 5CC, Charis has written the book.
Take a look at his guide in the strategy articles over at CFC.

	23-05-2003 19:47									#44
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Ah, thanks for the link alexman. Maybe 5CC will pull ahead now (although I secretly want Total War to win).


Dominae

	24-05-2003 10:53									#45
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TOTAL WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I also like the Blind Research one. Interesting not to choose your tech path. I hope we do this in a future AU game.

EDIT: still I think it's going to be a while until I get to play, RL has really gotten in my way, and I'm already hard pressed to play the 10+ PBEMs i'm in as well as the succession games/ demo games, etc etc... I haven't even started AU401

	24-05-2003 11:05									#46
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gee... so far I've been the warmongering tie-breaker

	24-05-2003 20:46									#47
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Due to Master Zen's vote, it looks like we're going with Total War. You asked for it guys!

I've asked alexman to set up the map for us. If all goes well the game should be ready just after the weekend.


Dominae


P.S: You asked for it.

	24-05-2003 22:13									#48
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I think Total War was a wise choice, we had already done a limited-city game (AU302) so this one should have been something different, hopefully however a future AU will do a 5CC and that Blind Research one which I liked...

	24-05-2003 22:22									#49
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You asked for it!

I recommend Sirp's excellent writeup of a total war game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...?threadid=43976

	24-05-2003 22:33									#50
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Sirp's version, where he would restart unless he was on an island alone, is essentially equivalent to "No Trading', if you think about it. Since the AI will never really threaten the nicely productive home island, the only things you lose by always being at war are: 1) the chance to switch to Republic, and 2) the chance to trade with the AIs.

I think we're going to do something rather different here...Crazy? You asked for it.

Edit: Hm, looks like Sirp was defeated by an invastion after all. I'm not quite sure why he avoided blocking off his beaches with units, though. Maybe we'll just avoid Deity for this one.


Dominae

	25-05-2003 00:10									#51
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Total War, I'm psyched.

I'll actually be caught up by the end of today... I'm finishing off 207 with a, errr, bang. ROTFLMAO

	25-05-2003 03:17									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Edit: Hm, looks like Sirp was defeated by an invastion after all. I'm not quite sure why he avoided blocking off his beaches with units, though. Maybe we'll just avoid Deity for this one. Dominae

Total war and deity sounds like a recipe for suicide if you ask me...

	26-05-2003 15:38									#53
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I've also read Sirp's total war adventures and I believe it will be a tough experience.

I usually play emperor and will do the same in upcoming Total War AU, but I think that also might prove very, very difficult.

I've already started wondering about which civ to select.

Main difficulty I foresee in a TW scenario is the science progress: not being able to trade for science or not getting it by peace treaties goes directly opposite my playing style.
Therefore you'll have to research everything yourself.
A scientific civ then comes in useful considering cheaper libs and univs and four free techs.

Some other elements to consider civ choice: as you'll be waging war from the beginning of the game militaristic seems quite useful, especially for the Great Leaders. Hopefully you'll have some very early on to build a wonder, because undoubtly you'll be so far behind in techs that you mustn't even dream about building/rushing wonders yourself.

Another aspect is the UU: you'll need one from the beginning on to profit as most as possible from them.
I love the Chinese Riders, but they'll be worth rather nothing later on: when you get the required tech, AI civs will by then probably already have cavalry in their hands.

So I understand Sirp's choice for the Greeks: Hoplite has a long time of usefulness, scientific brings in extra techs and faster research and commercial allows you to have a larger/wealthier empire, which is quite useful considering the fact that you'll have to aim for a conquest victory in a TW scenario.

Your thoughts on civ choice for TW?

AJ

	26-05-2003 15:52									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae P.S: You asked for it.

Sure.... next time I'll vote twice.

Fine, I'll give it a try. I was getting bored of winning thru domination anyway...

	26-05-2003 15:56									#55
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What about traits? (I hope map is standard/large, continents)

Expansionist is definitely good: you'll get free techs and map knowledge early on, giving you a better chance to keep up in science at least in ancient era.

Industrious: always very useful

Commercial: IMO there are better traits to pick for this scenario, but ... commercial civs have alphabet from the beginning on, allowing you to get maybe the most important Great Wonder for this game, The Great Library! So paradoxally commercial is also a top trait for this scenario.

Scientific: faster libs/univs so faster research and (hopefully if you survive till last
) four free techs. Important trait.

Militaristic: one could consider this a top trait for a TW scenario, but ... the problem is that the GL's you'll generate won't have the same impact as in normal game settings considering the fact you'll probably be so far behind in techs that the Wonder Race is almost exclusively reserved for the AI civs.

Religious: always ok are faster temples and cathedrals, but the flexibility of switching governments doesn't apply for this scenario, as you'll probably be stuck for monarchy (perhaps later on communism) almost whole game.

So what's the best trait combination in your opinion?

(I'll be thinking about it first before answering already )

AJ

	27-05-2003 07:29									#56
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Hi all...

Total war huh??? I don't even have a clue as to how to aproach this one. Is there any threads anyone can recommend so I can study a little before it begins??? Thanks

BigD

	27-05-2003 08:27									#57
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I agree with AJ in that Commerical is a vital trait just to get the GL, I am tempted to play with France as it can get its GA at a very usefull time too.

Other than that I am inclined to play Persia off the top, or China. An Archer Rush and an Immortal sweep should be good enough to wipe out my immediate neighbors in the Ancient age and let the Knights and Cavs take care of the rest.

	27-05-2003 15:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I agree with AJ in that Commerical is a vital trait just to get the GL, I am tempted to play with France as it can get its GA at a very usefull time too.

Or maybe Greece? They're both commercial. But the Hoplite will trigger an early GA...

	27-05-2003 21:39									#59
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The down side to Expansionist is that the earlier you meet other civs, the earlier you have to declare war on them. When you have to declare war on anyone you meet, there are definite advantages to keeping the number of civs you meet early in the game small.

	28-05-2003 00:08									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Or maybe Greece? They're both commercial. But the Hoplite will trigger an early GA...

That's the same reason I prefer France to Carthage in this type of game being that they are both ind/com