19-05-2003 05:36									#1
	Graduating from college next week, what to do now? Got spare money?

Three basic options now, all of which involve fleeing the country as quickly as possible. I passed the first stage of the Foreign Service Exam back in September and the second stage is in Boston this Friday. I then get results back eventually and get stuck on a queu depending on how well I do. This means that as embassy jobs become available the people on the top of the queu get first dibs on the jobs and then jobs trickle down the queu, which means it could take months and months to know whether I get a job and where.
Have had major second thoughts about recently. I want to have a bit more control over my life than getting shuttled around every three years to god knows where. And I have enough leftist pride that the thought of selling out to Bush is galling. I'm the sort of person who's supposed to protest against the government, not work for it goddamit!

Then there's my Korean ESL teaching job offer. The pay and benefits are about as good as I can get as a ESL newbie in Korea, the hours are beautiful (1-8 PM weekdays) and I should be able to save/pay off student loans to the tune of at least $1000/month (low prices and cheap living on my part). Have wanted to live in Asia for a while and the job seems good and the New Yorker expat who would be my co-worker seems like a good guy who would be able to keep me from doing anything especially stupid (have done as much research to avoid getting screwed over as possible, many thanks to Seeker...). Am also talking to a whooooooole lot of Korean recruiters and should have stacks of job offers shortly (new term beginning soon).

And we've also got Taiwan. The pay's not quite as nice Korea but the school I've got an interview scheduled for tomorrow morning is American-run (unlike the Korean one) which I hope is a good, think I'll get a job offer since SARS is scaring away the competition. And being able to learn Mandarin would be great for looooooooooooong term career goal of being a history prof (love chinese history) and you can't do much better than Chinese food (except in SE Asia where its harder for people w/o experience like me to get a food in the door). And I'd get a motor scooter! Few things are as cool as motor scooters!

Pics from near where I'd be in Korea (Chung Ju, about 700K population in a fairly mountainous bit with temperate weather smack in the middle of South Korea with two national parks and some places for skiing nearby:





Pics from neary where I'd be in Taiwan (Chiayi, about 250K population on the fairly tropical southern coastal plain, apparently pretty smogy but with Jade Mountain fairly close to the north):

	19-05-2003 05:58									#2
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My friend in Thailand did not have too much good to say about teaching English in Korea. If it is a toss up I would choose Taiwan. Of course I prefer Thailand but there is little money to be made there teaching English.

	19-05-2003 05:59									#3
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Hmmm, foreign service, eh? Sounds interesting. I wonder what the details are for that sort of thing up in These Frozen Wastelands...

What was the Amer'cun test like?

EDIT: Wow! 35 000 dollars a year to learn French! Mais oui!

Last edited by cinch on 19-05-2003 at 06:08

	19-05-2003 06:06									#4
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Taiwan seems good.
For a first experience at teaching English abroad, it is much better to start in an American-run school, since you'll have less trouble to keep up with the regelementations and with your colleagues.

Besides, it'll allow you to have more control on your life indeed, and you won't be selling your soul. If you enter the foreign dept, you'll probably be sad of your carreer, and it might be bad for long term.

	19-05-2003 06:10									#5
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Do you know Korean or Chinese?

	19-05-2003 06:16									#6
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Close call between Taiwan and being a bum.

	19-05-2003 06:53									#7
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run coke and listen to disco

	19-05-2003 06:57									#8
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Cut the soles out of your shoes, climb a tree and learn to play the flute. That, or find a bunch of guys to hang out with and dress like them.

	19-05-2003 07:04									#9
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whats ur major again?

	19-05-2003 07:05									#10
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this flute you speak of...can you kill with it?

	19-05-2003 07:11									#11
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The dark side beckons.

	19-05-2003 07:16									#12
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quote: Of course I prefer Thailand but there is little money to be made there teaching English.

Right and I've got $20,000ish of student loans hanging over my head. Maybe when I pay that off and get some experience (and maybe a MA) I'll try to get a good job in Thailand.

quote: What was the Amer'cun test like?

-one grammar section (multiple choice)
-one general knowledge (everything from history to politics to the constitution to really basic computer stuff to some very Dilbertish business jargon) (multiple choice)
-one demographics sections (for example "are you a wonderful perfect person?" very much agree!) (multiple choice and short answers)
-one essay section, I wrote on what to do trade-policy wise with countries with human rights etc. violations.

quote: For a first experience at teaching English abroad, it is much better to start in an American-run school, since you'll have less trouble to keep up with the regelementations and with your colleagues.

Yeah, that definately is a point in favor of Taiwan. There's be more Americans to work with there rather than the one New Yorker in Korea (although from our phone conversation he shoulds like someone I could work with no problem).
On the other hand I think I'd prefer the Korean climate, I like a little snow every now and then and tropical heat drove me a little nuts when I lived in Bolivia.

quote: Do you know Korean or Chinese?

Nope just decent Spanish and crappy Arabic. I don't want to live in Latin America (couldn't pay off student loans there anyway) and the Gulf States ESL jobs require masters degrees and experience.

quote: whats ur major again?

History. My uni doesn't have any education classes
Only classes of any relevance to this are Classical Chinese Philosophy and two semesters of Chinese History (although one was a **** class where I didn't learn anything).

Hmmmmm, Korea's not doing too well...

	19-05-2003 07:18									#13
	Got spare money?

Boshko ask seeker about teaching in korea.

EDIT: Nevermind u already did.

	19-05-2003 08:19									#14
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Sell your soul to Bush and go to Taiwan.

	19-05-2003 08:24									#15
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You can also teach English in the PRC, just like what mindseye do.

	19-05-2003 08:25									#16
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Maybe Taiwan pays better.

	19-05-2003 08:45									#17
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quote: You can also teach English in the PRC, just like what mindseye do.

Am shying away from PRC because:
-haven't found quite as good web resources (blacklists of bad schools).
-doesn't pay quite as well, (about half of what I'd get in Korea, although prices are lower) and have lots of student loans.
-don't really want to deal with a police state.
-not many jobs available in Hong Kong and the rent's insane there.
-one job I was looking at told me about how everything was heated 100% with coal in the winter and that there were clouds of coal dust all winter (although the smog is insane in most of Taiwan and Korea so this probably isn't a terribly good reason).
-am getting run a little ragged with recruiters constanting calling me at night or early morning as is (bad reason I know).

But most importantly there's a far far higher concentration of jobs available in a small area in Taiwan and (especially) Korea so I can jump to a new job far easier if I get ****ed over by a school. I might want to teach in China eventually, but I think a better way of going about that is being in East Asia already and seeing the schools first hand before accepting anything. As far as I can tell South Korea/Taiwan/Japan are the best place for newbies who are apply from the States. Might give Malaysia, mainland China, Thailand or Vietnam a shot later if turn out to be a decent teacher.

	19-05-2003 11:06									#18
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Congratulations Boshko! Good for you

Just do what you think you'd like to do best. Life is too short to sweat the details.

	19-05-2003 15:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko -not many jobs available in Hong Kong and the rent's insane there.

Well it depends. There are certainly cheap areas (don't just look at the ex-pat stuff), and you might be able to share an apartment with, say, Tingkai, another 'Polytoner. Besides, it's a happenin' place.

quote: Originally posted by Boshko -don't really want to deal with a police state.

You might have some misconceptions. Ask mindseye, don't take my word for it.

	19-05-2003 18:48									#20
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quote: Well it depends.

Unfortunately the not many jobs bits doesn't really depend

quote: You might have some misconceptions.

I probably do. But I don't think that the government in China is especially bad, just somewhat more likely to annoy me. And I might try working in mainland China later like I said, just really want to pay of my $20,000+ in student loans first which would be harder to do with Hong Kong rent or non-Hong Kong pay...

Oooooh, job offers from a suburb of Seoul and the city where they hosted the World Cup...

	19-05-2003 18:57									#21
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Snoop Doggie-Dog, get yoself a Jobbie-Job!



Welcome to real life.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

-Arrian

	19-05-2003 20:46									#22
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Thanks Arrian.
Just talked to the managers of both schools on the phone. Both seem like decent bosses from what I can tell. Although it is a little strange being called "Davi-du Bo" but that's something I have to get use to

	20-05-2003 03:24									#23
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boshko, if you go to korea, it is critically important that you tell me whether you are going to chungju or not.

see, the bad thing about romanization is that the hometown my family is from can be romanized two different ways, the more common one being ch'ongju, which is 700k people.
it's also the capital of the ch'ungch'ongbukdo province.
now, there's another city in the area that's often romanized ch'ungju, which doesn't have as many last i checked. it too is in the ch'ungch'ongbukdo province.
then you have other cities with similar romanizations, like chonju.

they're all distinctly different in korean, but...

	20-05-2003 03:33									#24
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Take the foreign service exam because if you get in you will be on easy street for the rest of your life. You'll never be rich but you will be middle class and you'll get to travel alot. On the downside may people in the foreign service get devorced since their spouses don't want to keep moving.

Still, in the mean time Korea is beautiful and it doesn't have SARS unlike Taiwan.