19-05-2003 17:12									#1
	Why don't pro-life groups do this? Full PM-box? Change here!

Why don't pro-life groups pay for pre-natal care, medical expenses, and lost income for a woman who would've otherwise aborted her child and then put that baby up for adoption?

I mean if someone's too poor to have a child, such a system would take away the economic arguement of abortion... and i'm sure considering how determined some pro-life groups are, they'd be willing to put up money towards saving children.


thanks

	19-05-2003 17:16									#2
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They do. It's called Medical Assistance, or Medicaid.

	19-05-2003 17:18									#3
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i wish the nra would fight for the legilization of pot as much as they do for guns...it would be a utopia!

	19-05-2003 17:21									#4
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We do.

. The LIGHT House - Providing free pregnancy testing, loving care and housing (residential and non-residential services), free full medical care, counseling, educational assistance,..., for unwed mothers and their pre-born babies, and providing free adoption services for those young women who choose to place their baby in a loving family.

You may live at the LIGHT House, or you may stay at home; you have medical care provided; you will continue your education; you will be charged nothing, for these services.

Kansas City, MO Call: 1-816-361-2233 and ask for Hope.


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. House of Hope - A ministry of Fellowship of Faith Ministry, Inc. A Christian home for runaway/throwaway teenage girls, dedicated to healing their whole person. House of Hope provides a loving home, education, and counseling,..., free for troubled girls, and counseling for their families.

Orlando, FL Call: 1-407-843-8686


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. Mercy Ministries of America - A place for troubled girls, and unwed mothers, where mercy triumphs over judgment, and unconditional love conquers all. Providing loving care and free housing, counseling, education, medical treatment,.... A place where all who enter can receive new life.

Nashville, TN Call: 1-615-831-6987

	19-05-2003 17:23									#5
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what if youre athiest mad monk? do they point to the door or the cross?

	19-05-2003 17:25									#6
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MRT:

of course not... what is this attitude that christian groups are hateful of everyone?

	19-05-2003 17:29									#7
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its been my experience that the fundie evangelical christians of america are out to convert or pass judgement on the way other people live. Im christian myself but i accept that we are all gods children, whether black white asian latino or middle eastern, gay straight or bi, male and female, christian muslim jewish budhist hindu athiest etc etc.

the fact is though a lot of christian organizations dont look kindly on outsiders. not all christian groups are, its mostly the ones that are overly zealous in their beliefs.

	19-05-2003 17:36									#8
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that's what I was wondering, is the counseling & guidance free from all religious aspects or not?

	19-05-2003 17:46									#9
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I've seen one similar house in the UK. It's clear that if the more pro-lifers spent more time helping those who are in trouble with pregnancy than condemning them the abortion rate would be a lot lower.

	19-05-2003 18:23									#10
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Well, there's the Gabriel project run by the Catholics as well. I don't know how much they do, but such groups do exist.

	19-05-2003 18:24									#11
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Spiritual guidance is there if you want it, but it's not forced, at least not in those homes that I know of.

	19-05-2003 19:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 the fact is though a lot of christian organizations dont look kindly on outsiders. not all christian groups are, its mostly the ones that are overly zealous in their beliefs.

The only christian groups I've seen like that have been characatures on TV. Most devout christians I know are like Ned Flanders, folks who would give the shirt off their back in a snow storm.

	19-05-2003 19:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie I've seen one similar house in the UK. It's clear that if the more pro-lifers spent more time helping those who are in trouble with pregnancy than condemning them the abortion rate would be a lot lower.

A sane, pragmatic approach to birth control/contraception wouldn't hurt either.

	19-05-2003 19:43									#14
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When I was small, my mum offered to adopt the unborn child of her friend, to stop her having a termination.

Some people will go to lengths to stop what they percieve to be murder.

Despite being a raving liberal, I've always been divided over the abortion issue.

	20-05-2003 10:02									#15
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My parish is involved in the Gabriel Project. Catholics are generally a lot less asinine than you seem to think MRT. A lot of the work is aiding non-Catholics, such as Mother Theresa's work in Calcutta.

	20-05-2003 15:00									#16
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There are a lot of things pro-life groups could do to help decrease the number of abortions and increasing the quality of life for the millions of children that wallow in adoption and foster care. Unfortunately, there are few groups that really care about people. Don't get me wrong, there are very good pro-life groups out there. In my experience, it seems like more are concerned with preaching morality rather than helping people. Ironically, pro-life and pro-choice people have some of the same goals... less abortions. I've beaten this dead horse too much though. Some think the best way to get rid of abortions is to criminalize it... others know that education, contraception, support are better ways.

	20-05-2003 15:17									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Felch My parish is involved in the Gabriel Project. Catholics are generally a lot less asinine than you seem to think MRT. A lot of the work is aiding non-Catholics, such as Mother Theresa's work in Calcutta.

youre right, catholic charities are good, but then again they are asinine when it comes to birth control, women in the church, etc etc.

	20-05-2003 15:39									#18
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The Orthodox church is just as stubborn with the women issue. Even though I tend to dislike Protestant Chrisitianity more than Catholicism and Orthodoxy, I have to hand it to some of them. There are many denominations that have women pastors/preachers/etc.

	20-05-2003 17:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The Orthodox church is just as stubborn with the women issue. Even though I tend to dislike Protestant Chrisitianity more than Catholicism and Orthodoxy, I have to hand it to some of them. There are many denominations that have women pastors/preachers/etc.

Thanks for the generalization Sava. You do realise that while the words "Catholic" and "Orthodox" refer to specific denominations, the term "Protestant" refers to a general category consisting of hundreds of unique denominations, each with its own unique doctrine? You might as well have said "Even though I dislike Other Christians more than Catholicism and Orthodoxy...."

	20-05-2003 17:37									#20
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There are many pro-life organizations throughout the nation that constantly give practical help to mothers and their children. The adoption mess is largely the fault of the system which prevents worthy familys from adopting until they jump through endless hoops. That is one reason why there are an increasing number of foreign adoptions. There is certainly no shortage of caring people who wish to adopt and care for unwanted children and their mothers.

	20-05-2003 18:41									#21
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quote: Thanks for the generalization Sava.

No problemo

quote: You do realise that while the words "Catholic" and "Orthodox" refer to specific denominations, the term "Protestant" refers to a general category consisting of hundreds of unique denominations, each with its own unique doctrine? You might as well have said "Even though I dislike Other Christians more than Catholicism and Orthodoxy...."

Yes... your point? I specified that there are many denominations of protestantism... BTW protestantism = anything not Catholicism/Orthodoxy... or at least that's what I've been taught...

nice post tho Doc... you're catching up to me in terms of irrelevance

	20-05-2003 18:56									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave A sane, pragmatic approach to birth control/contraception wouldn't hurt either.

Contraception goes directly against the Catholic Church, whilst "loving thy neighbour" is not, so we should at least be realistic in our expectations of Christians.

	20-05-2003 19:01									#23
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But you aren't allowed to covet his ox so bestiality is out.

	20-05-2003 20:06									#24
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... also can't covet your neighbor's ass - so none of THAT either.

	20-05-2003 20:31									#25
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Does the Pope condone the use of birth control?

Anywho, after looking at Italy, and the fact that they are mostly Catholic (as far as I know) faith is not the problem; Its poor life style choices.

to Alber Speer for addressing a solution and not the problem. I hate it when people just whine about the problem instead of hyping the solution. IMO people focus more on the problem, thus that someone with the problem is not aware of the solution... Make sense?

quote: also can't covet your neighbor's ass - so none of THAT either.

I have a better ass than my neighbors

	21-05-2003 02:20									#26
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"I have a better ass than my neighbors"

better watch out or your neighbors will covet yours.

	21-05-2003 03:02									#27
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quote: I mean if someone's too poor to have a child, such a system would take away the economic arguement of abortion... and i'm sure considering how determined some pro-life groups are, they'd be willing to put up money towards saving children.

Albert:

It's been well-documented in the thread, prolifers response to mothers with financial problems.

However, you are unduly worried about this economic argument. The argument is that we should kill people because they are too expensive. Just bring up the elderly, they are expensive to care for, should we kill them?

That's all you need to remember next time someone argues that we need abortion for mothers who can't afford children.

	21-05-2003 03:10									#28
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Obiwan:

Poll show though that the majority of americans are in favour of gov't funding for abortion clinics... ironically, the vast majority of americans are against abortion on demand. It seems that upwards of 60% of Americans are willing to allow poor people to get abortions (and have the gov't pay for it) but are against rich people getting them.

so the economic arguement is the only one that stands in the eyes of the American people... surprisingly, abortion on demand exists though the majority are against it.

	21-05-2003 03:21									#29
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"Does the Pope condone the use of birth control?

Anywho, after looking at Italy, and the fact that they are mostly Catholic (as far as I know) faith is not the problem; Its poor life style choices."

No, the pope repeatedly condemned birth control and has repeatdly declared it a sin. The catehcism declares it intrinsically evil, and it seems many on the Catholic Right view it as a grave sin.

The reason you don't see every catholic family with huge families of 7-10 kids and the like is most Catholics disagree with their Church's teaching on birth control. In some areas with less educated populaces, however, such as rural Latin America, the Church's stand on birth control has meant disaster.

	21-05-2003 03:48									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Sava No problemo Yes... your point? I specified that there are many denominations of protestantism... BTW protestantism = anything not Catholicism/Orthodoxy... or at least that's what I've been taught...

At least here in Germany the Term "Protestant" or "Evangelisch" refers to one of the three large Religions in the country aside from Catholics and Muslims.
It is the Religion which was created after Martin Luther rebelled against the catholic church and the christian religion as a result split in two parts (Catholics and Protestants).
(It´s the same two religions which were involved in the 30 years war).
The Church we know as Protestants has much less rules than the Catholizism, has no Head, like the pope, and does allow women to be clerics, and it has almost the same number of members here in Germany as the Catholizism.

Other christian communities such as Jehovas witnesses and those small communities you have in the USA are commonly referred to as either Sects or Free Christian Churches (or Communities).

So it seems, the meaning of the Word "Protestant" differ between Europe and America (as in other european countries I know of "Protestants" is used in the same manner as in Germany)