19-05-2003 19:02									#1
	What's up with the Germans? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey Gang,

Am I mssing something here OR are the Germans just a bit over the top? All sorts of nice economic bonuses, unique specialty units to help them dominate through all of the ages, and those free airplanes with oil being one of the rarer resources in the game just seems like a final nail in the case of unbalance here.

Maybe I'm a bit idealistic here but I'd like to believe all of the Nations are basically equal even if some of them take a lot more finesse to fully realize.

What do you folk think? If I do have a point here what kind of minimalistic neutering should be done to bring them back in line (and I'm doubting we can expect them to lose any of their special units)?

	19-05-2003 19:59									#2
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This game has been heavily playtested before release so it is likely to take a couple of months to say whether or not one or another nation is unbalanced with either too much or too little when played properly, whatever "properly" turns out to be.

I lost against the Egyptians last night playing as the Germans. If we are going to "minimalistically neuter" the Germans, perhaps we should "minimalistically neuter" the Egyptians a bit more? Point is, the results of only a few games provide no useful data on balance tweaks whatever, when a game has been as heavily playtested as this one has been.

Oh, also meaningless info, but I set the Germans against the Egyptians on autoplay with both set to "tough" AI. While I sat back and watched, the Egyptians beat the "over the top" Germans quite handily! Do we conclude from this that the Egyptians are too powerful? No, because there are too many variables on the map itself that can change the outcome.

	19-05-2003 20:10									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i think this problem will come up in the late ages when playing against russia! their uniqe units and the russian winter will make them very powerful, but hey where's the fun if there isn't any challange?

btw hi

	19-05-2003 20:32									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Uh... the Bantu own all...

	19-05-2003 20:36									#5
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Even though I love the Russians, do not underestimate the Koreans either. Their boost to economy early can really get them going and never looking back.

~ leaper

	19-05-2003 21:35									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

After playing the beta, i think if any nation is "overpowered" it is the koreans. They will get the first nerf in any patches that come out IMHO.

	19-05-2003 21:42									#7
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mabey, but don't forget the bantus' eagle fighter! its a very great unit, especially to get rid off enemy stealth bombers.
in my opinion the information age is the most important one
you'll spend most of the time playing in it.
thats why i guess i'll play with the azteks quite often, cuz they have jaguar infantry and i love infantry

	19-05-2003 22:43									#8
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they're actually VERY balanced.

the problem here is that you've been using one more, and found out how to exploit their bonuses for your own use.

you like the germans for their free planes? good.

i like egypt because farms give me wealth, and with the stockpile of wealth in the late game, i can BUY oil.

bantu? extra units later on to take on your panzers.

mongols? free cavalry / tanks.

everyone has "over the top" bonuses in A VERY NARROW AREA.

so you get free fighters. big whoop. try fighting a combined arms forced with just your fighters.

	20-05-2003 00:04									#9
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Thank Guys!

Actually I don't even KNOW how to really exploit the Germans but, yeah, my point was that most of the other Nations seemed to be "One Trick Ponies" (although often very powerful tricks) and the Germans seemed to have all sorts of clever tweaks going on. I really want to believe the races are balanced and if you all can verify that they do still appear pretty balanced, that's good enough for me.

	20-05-2003 01:26									#10
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I have been mostly playing with the Germans in the demo and I was starting to think they were hands down better than the other "demo" races but I think that is because as one person here pointed out, I had be playing with them over and over and developed a strategy that worked very well to take advantage of their abilities.

Then I saw the "sandbox" option. I wanted to test out the Egyptians with no oponents just to learn how they play. I "won" with a wonder victory in under 20 minutes. I was AMAZED how fast I won. Now I know I had no opponents and no competition so that certaintly skewes things but I was trying to play as I would if there were others races around.

I only had to build three cities and as soon as I had my fifth wonder I won. One of the wonders I built real early was the Terra Cotta army so I had a decent army to defend any early rush attacks and the game was over in like the second, maybe third age. If Egypt can really pop out wonders that fast I don't see how anyone can mount a force soon enough to stop them.

Of course all this is based on getting the Terra Cotta wonder first, making sure to research the upgrades to that unit line, and relying on that to produce your defense army for free.

We have to wait to see the other races for discussion on balance but how about wonders being balanced? They all have good bonuses for sure but to me the Terra Cotta Army is the number one MUST have wonder. I can't believe that it continues to give you the most up to date uints all the way through the game (provided you do the research).

	20-05-2003 01:45									#11
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In the late game, he who has Eifel is king.

	20-05-2003 01:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda In the late game, he who has Eifel is king.

Why? So you can have lots of oil to build units in the late game? Ok, yes that is very good in the late game and as I said all the wonders are good to have but The TC Army comes in the Early game and is equally usefull throughout the ENTIRE game, constantly pumping out free and current units every 30 seconds, sure they are only infantry but still. I think the fact that it will be a big boost over the course of the entire game makes it very powerful.

Of course just the fact that so many people have different favorites kind of proves how well balanced the game is. This just happens to be the one I like most.

	20-05-2003 12:39									#13
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i've been building the TC army for a lot of times, and i like it
you can concentrate on economics and your army still gets bigger.
but later i always get problems with the population cap.
this means i've got a lot of infantry and rare artillery, aircraft and cavalry units.
is there a way to set the TC army on Paused ?

	20-05-2003 12:42									#14
	Put an end to popups!

i've been building the TC army for a lot of times, and i like it
you can concentrate on economics and your army still gets bigger.
but later i always get problems with the population cap.
this means i've got a lot of infantry and rare artillery, aircraft and cavalry units.
is there a way to set the TC army on Paused ?

	20-05-2003 15:03									#15
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i don't know whats wrong
must be a connection problem or something!

SORRY