19-05-2003 19:26									#1
	Worker Placement Remove this text

Should we change the worker currently working the nutrient resource, to working the monolith?

Currently we get 3:1:1, the monolith obviosuly gives 2:2:2.

You have 2 days.

	19-05-2003 21:24									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm not set up to run the game atm and I don't even know where the save is... what will the turns-to-growth and turns-to-project-completion be with each of those options?

	21-05-2003 00:18									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have done a few calculations:
If we change to working the monolith, we will get:
Nuts: 4
Mins: 3
Energy: 5
This will me we grow in 11 turns, build a CP in 10 (which will mean postponing the CP) and will get the next tech in 3 turns (4 from scratch).

If we work the nutrients, we will get:
Nuts: 5
Mins: 2
Energy: 4
This will me we grow in 8 turns, build the CP in 11 (presuming we will put the next worker after growth on the monolith) and will get the next tech in 4 turns (5 from scratch).

If we do Maniac’s idea of using the monolith, then changing just before the CP is built so we grow first, it will mean working the monolith for 7 turns, and then the nuts for 4.
This will me we grow in 10 turns, build the CP in 11, and get the next tech in 3 turns (4 from scratch).

Basically, the first, working the monolith the whole time, is wasteful, as we would have to postpone the CP for 2 turns (one before we grow, and the turn we grow on as the CP goes through before the growth).

Thus it is a simple choice. Is it better to go for tech now, and get it one turn quicker, or growth now, and get that 2 turns quicker. Though we are heavily tech biased, if we grow first, our tech will be quicker later. Therefore, I will vote to keep working the nutrients, as having the extra worker ASAP means we get techs quicker then.

Last edited by Drogue on 21-05-2003 at 00:57

	21-05-2003 00:22									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The sooner we get PlaNets, the sooner we get CentEco. Every turn, every mineral and energy counts in the first few years. Therefore I maintain my monolith vote.

Btw, if we work the monolith, won't it be 4-4-5 instead of 4-3-5? One mineral and one energy against one nutrient is an easy choice for me.

	21-05-2003 00:57									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Maniac: Actually, nut's is 5-2-4 instead. Have rectified.

It's not that clear cut a choice. The extra nutrient means we grow quicker, so we actually get the CP only 1 turn later, because after 8 turns, it becomes 7-4-6. That is why I go for the nutrients.

Every min and energy count, but so does every nutrient. The faster we grow, the faster we can learn tech and produce, especially near the begining.

	21-05-2003 01:50									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

My cybernetic implants made some complex calculations. I hope I didn't make any mistakes.

First scenario A of using the nutrient bonus the entire time:

The following eight turns we would yearly gain:
3 nuts / 2 mins / 1 economy / 3.6 labs / CP production on 18 mins / 22 nuts in nutrient box

Then our base would grow to size 2. We would produce the following yearly the next three turns, when working the monolith and nutrient bonus:
3 nuts / 4 mins / 2 economy / 4.8 labs / CP production complete, base shrinks to size 1

Situation after eleven turns:
nutrient: 9 in nutrient box, with base size 1
minerals: CP complete on turn eleven, 0 mins in mineral box
economy: 14 credits
labs: 38.4 labs

--------------------
Now scenario B of first using the monolith, but switching to the nutrient bonus in a few turns:

The following eight turns we would yearly gain:
2 nuts / 3 mins / 1 economy / 4.8 labs / CP production on 26 mins / 19 nuts in nutrient box

Then we would switch to the nutrient bonus for one turn:
3 nuts / 2 mins / 1 economy / 3.6 labs / CP prod on 28 mins / nutrient box full

The base would grow to size 2. When working a monolith and nutrient square for one turn:
3 nuts / 4 mins / 2 econ / 4.8 labs / CP complete, 2 mins rollover / 3 nuts in box

The CP would be complete, the base shrinks back to size 1, but to compare with the other situation we'll continue one more turn while working the monolith:
2 nuts / 3 mins / 1 econ / 4.8 labs

Situation after eleven turns:
nutrient: 5 in nutrient box, with base size 1
minerals: CP complete on turn ten, 5 mins in mineral box
economy: 12 credits
labs: 51.6 labs

Summarized, if I didn't make any mistake at least, since the large difference between the two situations surprise me , in exchange for four more nutrients and two more credits in situation A, in situation B we get 5 more minerals, 13.2 more labs and a CP a turn earlier, which again generates nuts, mins and energy one turn longer than in situation B.

The choice seems obvious to me.

	21-05-2003 02:51									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Maniac: You cannot build a CP on the same turn you grow, or it is forced to wait a turn. I worked out you would actually ahve to switch from monolith to nutrients after 7 turns, in order to grow in time. I don't think those figures are quite right too. I got:

Thus, after 7 turns you would get:
2 nuts / 3 mins / 1 economy / 4.8 labs / CP production on 23 mins / 15 nuts in nutrient box.

Then 3 turns of:
3 nuts / 2 mins / 1 economy / 3.6 labs / CP production on 29 mins / nutrient box full.

Then 1 turn of:
3 nuts / 4 mins / 2 econ / 4.8 labs / CP completes / 3 nuts in box.

Thus in 11 years you get:
nutrient: 5 in nutrient box, with base size 1
minerals: CP complete on turn 11, 2 mins in box
economy: 12 credits
labs: 49.2 labs

Haven't checked the econ and labs figures. Will do that later.

	21-05-2003 03:43									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Maniac: You cannot build a CP on the same turn you grow, or it is forced to wait a turn.

Oh I see. I didn't know that (anymore).

quote: 15 nuts in nutrient box

IIRC we currently have three nuts and two mins in their boxes. So, unless I got it wrong somewhere, after seven turns monolith-working it would be 17 instead of 15 nuts, so we would only have to work two instead of three turns on the nutrient square. This slightly reduces the advantage of going monolith, but the difference is still very big.

	21-05-2003 15:24									#9
	Support Apolyton

Hmmm, maybe, but it says 11 turns to grow on pure monolith. Does that mean we need 24 to grow? Cause with 3 in their now, and 11*2=22 from the monolith, if it was 22 to grow, we would grow in 10 turns. If it's 24 to grow, then yes, it's 17, but that would still mean needing 3 turns of nutrients. With the extra labs, I'm tempted to agree with you on monolith though. So regardless, I shall change to monolith, as most seem to want it. Have the save BTW.

	30-05-2003 05:25									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have a thought pertaining to this worker... despite the fact that this poll closed long ago. Right now, we could shift to the nutrient resources. Hear out my argument, and then weigh the options.

Currently, we have growth in 7 turns and building the CP in 7 turns. We're also getting 5 total energy (2 from monolith and 3 from base). We have 20 minerals left for the CP, and are producing 3 a turn.

If we change to the minerals, we have growth in 5 turns, but the CP gets pushed back to 10 turns. In addition, we lose 1 energy per turn, which pushes our research back a turn. If we do this, we get an extra worker at 5 turns. If we then begin working the monolith and the energy resource, the following happens.

We end up getting the CP in 8 turns, as opposed to the current 7 turns. We have more nuts stored for when we lose the population, and we, overall, get more energy (all in labs, there is no effect on econ) (-1 for the first 5 turns = -5, +3 for the next three turns = +4). As a result, we get CE one turn later, but we have more energy stored for the next one, giving us a boost overall. The extra turn probably won't lose us any time in building formers, because we're switching production anyway.

Can someone just check out my reasoning and see if it works?

	30-05-2003 17:13									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Actually I and Drogue already checked it out a few posts above yours. Summarized, we'll gain much more labs when continuing to work the monolith. The other differences are rather minor.

	30-05-2003 23:10									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It could work, but we found it better to switch a little later, doing nutrient for 1 or 2 turns. Your reasoning is good, and better than doing monolith all the time, but if we switch later, we do better IIRC.

	31-05-2003 07:25									#13
	Got spare money?

Hmm, so you have... I didn't notice that

I must have been away when those were posted... sorry!