20-05-2003 03:27									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

i say ti89.

although, if you want sheer power and pleasure, if not so much in graphic, go with hp...

you'll have to get it off ebay, these days, though. lord, how i miss those calcs.

	20-05-2003 03:28									#32
	Tired of ads?

Ah. It all becomes clear.
I always found/find it more fun to work those out by hand.

	20-05-2003 03:29									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui *ahem* You said: Universities are about general enlightenment and education and understanding Philosophy definetly falls under general enlightenment .

If you say so, I meant general enlightenment so you can better understand the world.

Reading someone else's words who died 2000 years ago rambling about the shinbag and the anti-shinbag conflicting in the time-space continuum and the multiple choices it brings is a waste of time, money, and is certainly not enlightening.

quote: Yes I have... and I don't see why I should have to know how to do derivatives in my head (though I did at one time, when I wasn't allowed to use calculators to do so... grrr).

Well, I don't expect you to understand as a social-sciencey kinda guy, Imran. That's why you don't need to take much maths.

	20-05-2003 03:31									#34
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: I meant general enlightenment so you can better understand the world.

DING DING DING! You just described the reason for studying philosophy in university . That's exactly what it is.

Though I don't expect you to understand as a math kinda guy.

	20-05-2003 03:32									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui DING DING DING! You just described the reason for studying philosophy in university . That's exactly what it is. Though I don't expect you to understand as a math kinda guy.

There's a reason poli sci was near the bottom of "what is your degree worth" rating, and politicians are considered the biggest scums of the earth.

Philosophy is teaching you what other people think. I guess that's fine for people who don't know how to think but like to pretend like they're intelligent, like Agathon for example...

	20-05-2003 03:34									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Philosophy is teaching you what other people think.

Yes, in order to develop your own thoughts from reading a diverse collection of others. Like they say... standing on the shoulders of giants.

And, of course, it can be VERY enlightening. Reading Nietzche for the first time totally changed my entire world view around.

	20-05-2003 03:40									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: I agree, my high school permitted graphing calculators, and when I got to university I had to re-learn so much stuff since I was overly dependant on the graphing calculator to do everything. I understand the mechanics and fundamentals of mathematics much better now that I was forbidden from using calculators.

What, exactly, are the "mechanics" and "fundamentals" of finding, say, 14! or exp(5.6)? It's not possible to evaluate these to any significant degree of accuracy/reasonable amount of time without a calculator.

I would agree that calculators should be prohibited in an arithmetic exam, but it makes absolutely no sense to prohibit calculators in a Probability course.

	20-05-2003 03:41									#38
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ramo What, exactly, are the "mechanics" and "fundamentals" of finding, say, 14! or exp(5.6)? It's not possible to evaluate these to any significant degree of accuracy/reasonable amount of time without a calculator.

The test is designed knowing students don't have access to calculators, so they don't ask for 14! or exp(5.6). The test is about, say, calculus, and not arithmetic.

	20-05-2003 03:42									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My high school never permitted graphing calculators but in college they just assumed you knew what you were doing if you'd made it this far. By and large they were correct.

	20-05-2003 03:43									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My Probability tests were not designed that way. A calculator was required.

	20-05-2003 03:45									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

If a calculator was required, I'd bet they let you use one, then? If they make the questions with huge, weird, long unimportant calculations, a calculator should be required.

But if the prof is halfway decent, he should be able to create questions with easy numbers and simply test the stuff the test is on...

	20-05-2003 03:45									#42
	Got spare money?

Not that I'm saying it's a good policy, but that's how Probability classes generally are.

	20-05-2003 03:49									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Also, in many cases, they don't even require you to evaluate 14! or exp(5.6), they allow you to leave them in that form.

	20-05-2003 03:56									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Asher The test is designed knowing students don't have access to calculators, so they don't ask for 14! or exp(5.6). The test is about, say, calculus, and not arithmetic.

So if it is designed (rightly) so you don't need calculators, why ban them?

	20-05-2003 04:01									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat So if it is designed (rightly) so you don't need calculators, why ban them?

Because people can use the calculators to get the answers, ie do a matrix multiply, without understanding how it's done. The arithmetic, however, is usually very basic.

	20-05-2003 04:02									#46
	Got spare money?

So ban graphics calculators.

	20-05-2003 04:06									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you can't do very basic, jr. high level addition/subtraction/mult/division, you shouldn't be in those uni courses.

	20-05-2003 04:16									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If your calculator isn't made by HP, it's inferior. Though I think the Ti-86 is the one they built for statistics. It does a decent job.

	20-05-2003 04:19									#49
	Got spare money?

hps are quite simply the best calculators ever made.

even if they were ass-slow with graph rendering.

'stoo bad that hp closed its calc division recently--probably for good.

	20-05-2003 04:21									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Asher Philosophy is teaching you what other people think. I guess that's fine for people who don't know how to think but like to pretend like they're intelligent, like Agathon for example...

I could make some nasty comment about your intelligence, but I wont

	20-05-2003 04:27									#51
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I never liked RPN...

	20-05-2003 04:28									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I could make some nasty comment about your intelligence, but I wont

You're the one that moved to Utah, doesn't that say a lot about your intelligence?

	20-05-2003 04:30									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Asher You're the one that moved to Utah, doesn't that say a lot about your intelligence?

I moved here because of my wife it's called devotion.

	20-05-2003 04:33									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Mmhmm.

	20-05-2003 04:44									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I love my TI-30X IIS. It has a great history feature, that, combined with the five built-in variables, saves you a lot of time when doing stuff like Newton's method and the like.

	20-05-2003 05:01									#56
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'd suggest getting something that uses RPN, which I don't believe the TI series does.

(Just did a search... looks like you can add a program to the TI-83+ and make it accept RPN, but I can't comment on how well that'd work)

Remember, if you're doing a lot of calculations, RPN is your friend. I've got a couple HP scientific calculators (one of them is graphing, but I haven't used that feature in years) and I wouldn't be willing to give up the RPN at all.

Wraith
QUARKBAR - the candy with flavour and charm.

	20-05-2003 05:18									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Eli TI Casio

could not disagree more.

For statistics, the TI-83+ has everything you need in a simplistic format. If your used to a TI-82, then a TI-83 is not too much change.

I used them for several years, very fine calculators. After my last one was stolen, I upgraded to the TI-89. This is an awesome calculator, though its much more than you would need for statistics or economics. Its built more for algebra/calculus (major emphasis on calculus) purposes, though it can perform statistics purposes fine. If you dont mind the aggrevation of trying to learn a completely new format, and dont mind paying 50 extra bucks, then i recommend it.

However, I must declare the efficiency/simplicity/cost of the TI-83 is better if all you wont be going into calculus much.

	20-05-2003 05:23									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by loinburger I've used a calculator in every math class I've taken since freshman year of high school. Why cripple yourself? For statistics a scientific calculator would probably suffice.

It's like Linux, is 'cool' to do it the hard way

	20-05-2003 05:23									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by loinburger I've used a calculator in every math class I've taken since freshman year of high school. Why cripple yourself? For statistics a scientific calculator would probably suffice.

	20-05-2003 05:47									#60
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by cinch Yes, what is up with that? I thought it was common practice that calculators were disallowed in university maths... I was mistaken, I guess.

in real math calculators wouldn't help at all

Jon Miller