20-05-2003 05:47									#61
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quote: Originally posted by cinch Yes, what is up with that? I thought it was common practice that calculators were disallowed in university maths... I was mistaken, I guess.

in real math calulators make no difference

Jon Miller

	20-05-2003 05:50									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Maybe trigonometry, but then they're just electronic trig tables.

If they made us use trig tables, I would go insane. I've had a TI-83 since 7th grade (Geometry). They are incredible timesavers and don't prevent you from learning the concepts. I'm in precalc now, and calculators are absolutely NECESSARY for many of our calculations.

	20-05-2003 06:02									#63
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I used a calculator in high school (still have the old TI-82 somewhere) but never in the university. They were not allowed in calc classes (which is the highest I went), and I saw very few of them around. I think iot was beter that way, people become too dependent on them.

Oh, and Asher continues to be wrong about philosophy. (Go Nietzsche!)

	20-05-2003 06:31									#64
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If you cant do the sums in your head you just pass it over to the math-type stats geeks............








Oh,

	20-05-2003 06:31									#65
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quote: (Go Nietzsche!)

Go defend him with me in the which philosopher should I read thread (Recommend me some good Philosophy - on the 2nd page in this forum time warp right now) .

	20-05-2003 06:36									#67
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Many of you have said that calculators were banned for your Calc classes. Are you NUTS! For the calc class I'm taking next year, they're *literally* required (as in they require you to have one).

	20-05-2003 07:07									#68
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What is RPN?

	20-05-2003 07:26									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi What is RPN?

Reversed Polish Notation. Which is the way you needed to enter numbers and operators on HP calculators. Here's an example. From algebric notation

x = (a + b) * c

RPN:

a b + c * x =

It is based on the use of a stack, which, if you imagine, is similar to a stack of dishes at a buffet table. In other words, LIFO (last in first out).

	20-05-2003 08:50									#70
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problems with database and crosspost

Last edited by on 20-05-2003 at 09:01

	20-05-2003 08:56									#71
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As many said, nothing short of a cmputer with some math-software is of ANY use past a calc course (that is at university level) and then even of very limited use.
At university level, math is about concepts, not much about calculations.
I would say my position on calculators at lower level is somewhat like Asher. Both approaches can be taken, but you have to make the test appropriate. You can easy computation and disallow calculators and allow answers in non-decimal (I prefer to say "exact") form to test understanding of concept. Or you can ask questions that require some heavier arithmetic and allow scientific calculators for maybe problems that look more realistic.
Now the third step is graphical calculators...
This is somewhat different.
Its very hard to check what gets on there.
A Ti-80 can numerically differentiate and I know a Ti 83 can be programmed to analitically differentiate, so basically renders obsolete almost all understanding of maybe the equivalent of a calc 1 course.
Now with even better calculators you could also analitically integrate sums infinite series of calc 2 level.
With no understanding.
It depends on the philosophy.
Of course someone could argue, that the person will have the tools later so should be able to use them right.
This is somewhat true though I find this akin to arguing that you will have a calculator later in life so should never need the addition table up to 10...
Some of you may think this is exagerating, but in some fields, maybe engineering or physics, (not math) differienting or integrating is almost like doing addition.
Even though something does it for you,. its important to know the most possible of whats happening below the surface.

	20-05-2003 09:12									#72
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Jon:

quote: in real math calculators wouldn't help at all

quote: in real math calulators make no difference

Alright, alright, I get the point!

I may only be in high school, but even we young'uns take base-level calculus, which has some totally not-calculatorable stuff.

Them numbers be wacky!

	20-05-2003 10:07									#73
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quote: Originally posted by LulThyme Some of you may think this is exagerating, but in some fields, maybe engineering or physics, (not math) differienting or integrating is almost like doing addition.

Maybe in physics, but not in engineering. It's jsut an urban legend.

	20-05-2003 10:11									#74
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quote: I find this akin to arguing that you will have a calculator later in life so should never need the addition table up to 10...

Well apparently Einstein never memorized his phone number on the basis he could always look it up... so .

	20-05-2003 15:20									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I find this akin to arguing that you will have a calculator later in life so should never need the addition table up to 10... Well apparently Einstein never memorized his phone number on the basis he could always look it up... so .

That's why he's a genius, he knew not to clutter up his mind with trivia.

	20-05-2003 16:59									#76
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--"a b + c * x ="

Small correction...

It would be:
a (enter) b + c *

The x = bit wouldn't be put in to the calculator. X is the answer you're trying to get out of the calculator ^_^ And RPNs don't have equals keys, although there is an enter key that serves a different function (one of the reasons for getting a graphing calculator with RPN - you can run multiple equations pretty much side by side and feed the results into each other as necessary).

Wraith
e to the x dy dx! e to the y dy! sin x cos x ln y!

	20-05-2003 18:15									#77
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"Well apparently Einstein never memorized his phone number on the basis he could always look it up... so "
Im not saying this is not true, just that its almost certainly an urban legend or an exageration.
Maybe his phone number, but he knew his age, or his adress or somebody else's thats for sure.
Needing to remember where to look up all this useless trivia takes almost more memory work than to remember it.
Im not saying your particular example isnt true, just that if we checked , im almost certain that he remembered lots of "useless" trivia.

	20-05-2003 18:16									#78
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The same with add table up to 10.
Anyone can look it up, but its used so often that its much quicker to learn it, and even better to "understand" it, understanding for example that addition is commutative, associative...
Everybody knows that (maybe not the words but the concept) and use it all the time in real life, although I have it written in some of my analysis books, it would be stupid of me not to know it to look it up...

	21-05-2003 04:54									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I never liked RPN...

-Infidel!

quote: Many of you have said that calculators were banned for your Calc classes. Are you NUTS! For the calc class I'm taking next year, they're *literally* required (as in they require you to have one).

-Calculators can never be *required*, they can only make certain problems easier Hehe, I used to be able to generate certain Taylor polynomials faster than my calculator.