20-05-2003 10:15									#1
	Will the Ottomans want to renegotiate peace? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Probably a stupid question...and the answer is probably in the manual or on the strategy forum somewhere... but.... When I have a 20 turn peace treaty, the AI always wants to renegotiate for an extra 20 turns on the turn the treaty expires. I obviously would prefer no formal agreement, but the AI always requests it, and I cant "decline" without declaring war. So in SP, I find myself always at war exactly every 20 rounds...or if I am not ready in 20...I end up being forced to wait 40 turns.

Definitely not a stupid question. This happens to me too sometimes; however, I find it is usually when the peace treaty carries a gpt or luxury on the AI's side. If the AI only gave one-time contributions (or nothing at all) on their own side, it can slide. Not really sure what process is used to determine peace reneg or not when there is no per-turn deal the AI wants to get rid of; I bet it has something to do with power ranking and/or culture and/or military strength, though, and I think we're safe on the second and third counts, this being deity. And so far as I know, the Ottos haven't built any temples yet, so we're only one or two culture points behind (due to the palace being delayed one turn due to our settler move). But, you're right, this might be a problem.

If the Ottos do try to reneg peace in ten turns, we'll have the initial archer force almost ready (five of the six archers, and spearmen can be pulled off garrison duty), but only just, so it will still be turns away from Edrine. However, despite that, I think our best option in such a circumstance would be to declare war then and there; IMO ~5 turns early is better than ~10-15 turns late, and we will have an Archer stack built, if not ready, by then. But this is Uber and GT's area, not mine.

	20-05-2003 15:40									#2
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What about the option of asking for a reneg ourselves, where we demand more? That way we might have the option of several techs, before we even have to attack! It may not be the way we go, but it's always nice to have options.

Does anyone know when this would need to be? Whether we can reneg first or do they get the option to contact us first? From recent experiences, when another civ looks to renegotiate (must not use reneg - looks too much like they are going back on their agreements...), you have the option of accepting their deal or war. And no alterations to the deal.

	20-05-2003 16:18									#3
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Yes, that's been my experience on the matter. I have also enver been able to beat the AI to renegotiation, either - they always seem to get in first.

	20-05-2003 20:11									#4
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I don't have the save in front of me. However, if we do not have a gpt then there will be no renegotiation. If we do then there IS going to be renegotiation.
Aggie

	20-05-2003 21:12									#5
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From my experience, if an AI thinks it can get a better deal for peace (according to the same rules that determine the foreign advisor's advice; in other words, if the AI has grounds, according to some inner game rules, to demand a better deal) and is not afraid of going to war if it can't get a satisfactory deal, it will attempt to renegotiate peace.

	21-05-2003 01:01									#6
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In my own experence, when I'm receiving GPT (or luxaries / resources) in exchange for peace, the AI usually wants to renegoiate as soon as it's due on their turn and usally does so in the accept a straight peace for peace 20 turn due or else declare war mode.

In addition, while we can preempt the AI honorally by calling them up on our turn when it's due rather than waiting for them, if we were receving GPT (or luxary / resource) the deal is worse than leting it ride. (But still better than the straight peace for peace or else war the AI is likely to propose on their turn.)

If we're not receving GPT or equialvent then usually the superior result is us renegioating on our turn, but we still need to have a larger army.

	21-05-2003 02:43									#7
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I agree it's unlikely we'll face a reneg (there are no gpt deals on either side; it's straight peace for peace now), but I think we have to consider the possibility. If it does happen and we have a choice between attacking then or 20 turns later, I think we should attack; but that's just my opinion.

	21-05-2003 02:58									#8
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If no attempt was made for a gpt or tech deal, then there shouldn't be a reneg, but if a no gpt deal was made after an attempt to negotatate anything besides a vanilla treaty, then it will ask for a reneg.

FYI(in other civ games) if the civ can't afford to pay the gpt after 20 turns, it will reneg, no matter how weak.

Rather than 1 war in 40 turns,give them a bloody nose in 20 turns AND a decisive war in 40 turns?

Last edited by realpolitic on 21-05-2003 at 03:05