20-05-2003 13:04									#1
	Unit trading - bad idea II Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

My first point about unit trading was not to suggest that there is no historical precedent. However, The dynamics of this game make what is being proposed absurd and highly unhistorical. What we are talking about here are NOT small mercenary units assisting another Civ, or the sale of equipment to another nation. Unit trading on the scale being proposed is not the same as the USA selling 30 F-15's and 50 Tanks to Israel. It would be tanamount to the USA 'giving away' 250 F-15's, 1000 Tanks, 200,000 Infantrymen, ect ect... Lend Lease during WW2 was very generous, but come on! This is more than a small stretch, or minor abstracting. To allow a massive military give away to a small battered CIV at war with a dominant CIV moves the game from an abstraction to a complete unrealistic fantasy.

The only way to incorperate this into the game in a reasonable fashion would be to have severe restrictions on the total amounts allowed to be traded or given away. Perhaps no more than 5% of your total military (even this is quite a stretrch!). Also, repeated or large trades to a CIV already at War should at some point trigger a DOW by the opponent CIV's on you as a result.

Personally, I still don't like it. It just seems like a cheap exploit. If you really want to wound that other dominant CIV. Be a man, declare war.

As to the comments about the AI being able to reasonabaly handle Unit Trading - yeah right. Lets just say, thank god they created the huge AI cheat advanatages through the levels - otherwise the game would be unplayable.

CIV3 is my favorite game. Unit tradeing in a very very limited manner (with heavy pro-AI advantages) I could live with. Even in MP unit tradeing should be greatly limited. Personally, the game is great without it. Why bother.

	20-05-2003 13:34									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

U understand your points, but I feel that if you look at history Superpowers have always been able to keep small batterred Countries going by giving them weapons. The Cold war was full of such events, E.G. Vietnam, Korea and others.

Yes it makes it a bit unbalanced but that is what happens when superpowers get involved. True the unit trading does not take in to account man power, but in Civ so long as you can build tanks ther'll always be men to operate them, unlike German near the end of WW2. So I feel unit sales or trading would be a good adition and force players to make packs

	20-05-2003 13:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Please don't be such a killjoy

Most of us want unit trading - Firaxis had it on their wishlist - and what you are saying is pretty much sour grapes. When the expansion is released, if you hate unit trading that much simply abstain and let the rest of us enjoy such the cool new features.

	20-05-2003 19:50									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Come on, I hardly think Ision is bing a killjoy just because his idea of a better Civ 3 is different than ours. Any discussion about the game that intelligently incorporates the games design and the results of new potential features has a place here.

	20-05-2003 21:45									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Unit trading could be something for multiplayer but not for single. The AI is to stupid for that, as someone already pointed out.