21-05-2003 00:12									#1
	More things the manual doesnt explain... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I submitted a thread on what I called the 'stovepipe' icon (q.v.) relating to the military and civilian production sliders which isnt elucidated in the manual. The jury is still out, I think on that, whether it relates just to overspend or a combination of overspend/pollution. But I am, at any rate, grateful for the suggestions posted.

Here are three other problems which I have come across which, as far as I can tell, the manual doesnt explain. Does anyone please have any answer?

I cant create 'waves' of ships (11 plus) rather than just flotillas (six maximum) because none of the ships I designate for a task force will go 'picket'. You need at least one picket ship to create a formation bigger than a flotilla. The ships I try to designate picket jump back to escort protection or the core, the cowards! Anyone worked out how you do that?

I agreed with some one on the threads that this imposition of a straitjacket on how we form task forces is a real pain in the nether regions! (And how they couldnt come up with a better show for fleet combat is sooo disappointing but I digress!) Incidentally, since all I have are flotillas of ships, I dont seem to be able to bring the full weight of my combined task forces in any star system on any attack or defence. For instance, I have 200 plus ships in two particular systems but whenever the perfidious Ogoch or Zdarelek attack I seem only to be able to reply with about an eighth of my fleet! Is that because I can only construct flotillas and not larger formations?

Secondly, there is no option in 'Shipyards' independently to create marques of either fighters or missiles, so far as I can see. Though there does seem to be an option to add fighters or missiles to various of the larger ship designs (not that I have been able to make that work yet!). I am presently assuming then that when I create space fighter and missile or beam bases I am not just creating the infrastructure but that the AI automatically creates squadrons of fighters and regiments of missiles and beams based on latest technology? The very brief explication in the tiles suggests that but doesnt make it entirely clear. So when I create a space fighter or a beam or missile base, am I creating a squadron or regiment along with it or just the base itself? Some one please confirm.

Finally, when one creates agents but doesnt send them on external missions but keeps them for 'internal security', does anyone feel that they do prevent assassinations and sabotage which might otherwise happen? I am beginning to have my doubts.


Live long and prosper.

	21-05-2003 01:18									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's just overspending. Pollution is an entirely separate thing.

For pickets, you want reconnaissance ships.

The game will only let 10 task forces be active for your side in a battle, and for reasons beyond my fathoming you don't get to pick which ones. Yes, larger formations will help.

The planetary bases are supposed to be your latest technology, and should upgrade automatically. They are also stocked automatically, and you can't change what's in them or how many.

The agents at home do help, but only to an extent. It's something along the lines of 5 agents = 1 notch on the Oppressometer, so it's of limited effectiveness...but lots cheaper than kicking up the Oppressometer, as well.

	21-05-2003 12:05									#3
	Got spare money?

For bigger formations a smattering of recon and point defence ships will be needed. They also do a valuable job! You're a lot better off with ten LR ships that can see the enemy at long range than 15 who can't because they have no recon. Okay you could put tons of scanners and PD weapons in the LR ships but MoO3 wants you to diversify in the way a true navy does.

	21-05-2003 15:02									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You could mod the taskforcerules.txt file (I think that is the correct file, I'm not on my machine with Moo3 installed, if its not let me know and I will find the right one for you).
In this file you can alter the number of units in any formation and also the number of pickets etc.
One hint if you do mod it - don't increase the max units in a formation too much - when I tried this it made it far too easy as my uber formations outnumbered the enemy too much - planetary defences etc didn't stand a chance!

	22-05-2003 22:33									#5
	Remove this text

Many, many thanks, Stormhound, Doomed and Grumbold for enlightening me. I myself would NEVER have thought of picket ships needing to be tasked for a reconnaissance mission! The manual doesnt mention that, at all!!!

Yes, the flotillas I have been assembling (because I didnt know how to make bigger formations) seem to be rather arbitrarily assigned to protect various planets when alien battlefleets come a-visiting. Another frustrating aspect of the game as it presently stands. I might try your suggestion, Stormhound, but I would need more specific instructions as how to modify the file.

The espionage/counter-intelligence provision is crap! There would be no reason to 'oppress' your people more provided you could spend enough on espionage, sabotage and counter-intelligence. Another forced choice. It would have been much better, I think, if the MOO3 designers, as designers for other space strategy games have provided (I think particularly of 'Birth of the Federation'), for there just to be percentage sliders for devoting resources to these areas rather than only being able to recruit a handful of individual spies (with such ridiculous codenames!).

For the trillionth time, I wonder how did so many ridiculous things get through the beta-testing phase unless the designers were finally so constrained by deadlines and budgetary limits as not to be able to fix them.

Having said that, I am now on game turn 724 - though it now takes ages for a turn to be completed! The game, even in its defective state, still has, for me at least, that desired quality of 'one more turn and I go to bed'! It has kept me up very late indeed!

Live again and prosper.

	23-05-2003 03:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: For the trillionth time, I wonder how did so many ridiculous things get through the beta-testing phase unless the designers were finally so constrained by deadlines and budgetary limits as not to be able to fix them.

My impression, from brief post-release comments by the BTs, is that QS largely focused on fixing instability. I believe the PD bug, for one, was reported during testing.

	23-05-2003 21:49									#7
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Yup beta is always far more about making what they have stable than changing the way it works.