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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
It makes you a hypocrite to say that it's ok for hollywood to depict foreign territories on american soil but terrible for foreign movies to depict America on their soil.
What does that have to do about being critical of directors making movies about real world locations they have never been to in thier life, in this case that would be America?

The Templar is offline The Templar
Prince
People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
It makes you a hypocrite to say that it's ok for hollywood to depict foreign territories on american soil but terrible for foreign movies to depict America on their soil.


Actually, Hollywood loves to depict the US on foreign soil. Toronto is a popular proxy for New York - and I've heard that Montreal is often used to depict New Orleans. (I guess all you need is the one stock shot of Jackson Square and the Cathedral followed by some cops whooping @$$ on Bourbon Street.)

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 14:58
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Great post Rufus

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Great post Rufus


Thanks.

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
"Dogville" is set in a fictional town in the Rockies. Kidman plays Grace, a desperate stranger who asks Dogville's residents (played by Lauren Bacall, Paul Bettany, Stellan Skarsgard, Chloe Sevigny and others) to hide her from ruthless gangsters. Initially portrayed as homespun and considerate folk, the people of Dogville turn out to be morally despicable individuals who are variously treacherous, fear-driven and even rapacious. … In the movie's biblical scheme of things, they get their just deserts.


Sacre bleu! Now let's burn all those evil anti-french movies by Luis Bunuel, shall we? Just think about it, how eg Belle de Jour portrays french men as either pathetic weaklings or brothel going perverts, and french women as masochistic wannabe whores.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 15:42 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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What a load of fuss about nothing.

Would there be any complaints if von Trier had made an extremely pro-American film without ever having been there?

It's just a film, and from the sounds of it a really bad one (Nicole Kidman? Bleh! ). It's a work of fiction set in a fictional town, only the most brain-dead simpleton would consider it a realistic portrayal of American society. Especially when it isn't meant to be.

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
King
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 19:33
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Rufus:

quote:
Honest question (not a provocation): have you ever lived abroad (and I mean really lived abroad, not lived on a military base or some other "Little America")?

I've traveled in Europe several times, and my impression is somewhat different than yours. But then, I have not lived on or near military bases or other American enclaves, and tend to avoid the most touristy areas. When in France I would order a Coq Monsieur for lunch (in French), not "Le Boat Burger".

Tingkai:
quote:
How do you know it is critical of the US?
Did you read the link, or any of several other similar reviews, including some from Europe?

FrustratedPoet:
quote:
It's a work of fiction set in a fictional town, only the most brain-dead simpleton would consider it a realistic portrayal of American society. Especially when it isn't meant to be.
Consider von Trier's comment in yesterday's NY Times
quote:
"I know that America doesn't look like that," Mr. von Trier said, "but I also know that America does look like that."

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
Rufus:
I've traveled in Europe several times, and my impression is somewhat different than yours. But then, I have not lived on or near military bases or other American enclaves, and tend to avoid the most touristy areas. When in France I would order a Coq Monsieur for lunch (in French), not "Le Boat Burger".


Of course; I'm the same way. But it is impossible to spend a whole day in a major Turkish city without at least being reminded of the existence of America and its international power. It might be passing a McDonalds or a Burger King; in might be the transaction you engage in that is negotiated entirely in dollars, not lira; it might simply be the encroachment of English on the native language (where diet cola, for example is not called "Cola Sekersiz" but "Diet [pronounced Dee-et ] Cola"). By contrast, I could spend whole years in Pittsburgh going about my business and never be asked to think of Turkey -- or Denmark, for that matter. What I'm saying is that most Americans have the luxury of forgetting, day-in and day-out, that the rest of the world even exists. But the rest of the world does not have the luxury of forgetting that we exist; we've made damned sure of that. At this point, at least in the West, everybody lives in America, at least just a little.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
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Mar 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 20:48 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
FrustratedPoet:
Consider von Trier's comment in yesterday's NY Times


Well, I suppose that comment could be used to argue the case either way, but the only thing it really proves is that von Trier is a pretentious fool, which I think most people can agree on.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
but the only thing it really proves is that von Trier is a pretentious fool, which I think most people can agree on.
Agreed.

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 22:25
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quote:
I would order a Coq Monsieur for lunch

You would order a what???

Anyways, a movie that has Lauren Bacall in it is by definition a masterpiece!

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
King
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Hueij
You would order a what???

@#$%^&* americans can't remember its spelled c-r-o-q-u-e.
Let me tell you about the pomme de terre pie I ordered for dessert. ....

quote:
Originally posted by Hueij
Anyways, a movie that has Lauren Bacall in it is by definition a masterpiece!
I would agree in every case but this.

Last edited by Adam Smith on 22-05-2003 at 22:54

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 22:44
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quote:
I would agree in every case but this.

Oh well, I guess I'll watch The Big Sleep instead tonight

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 22:48
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Euros have just as many bigots as the US does only they're still trying to pretend the Emperor has clothes and that their pot isn’t black. Still it’s funny to watch prejudice in action. Viva Cannes!

Alex is offline Alex
Emperor
Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 00:07 Visit Alex's homepage!
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I watched Stigmata a few weeks ago on TV, and I was ROTFL when I saw that the fictitious Brazilian city in the movie was actually a mexican city!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
pomme de terre pie I ordered for dessert.

For dessert ? This is an experience I have to live Do you remember the name of the restaurant ?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Much as I think the Dogma 95 manifesto is a joke, I will say:

1) von Trier is a great director; Europa (a/k/a Zentropa), Breaking the Waves, and The Kingdom are among the very best things I saw in the 90s. This film might suck, but every director I love has made at least one film that sucked, and generally more.

2) Surely no one is more guilty of making films about places they've never been that the American Film Industry, collectively considered.

3) Artists all over the world (including in the US) hate Bush and Bush's version of America. Wherever artists gather -- whether at Cannes or at the Northern Illinois University Senior Mixed-Media Sculpture Exhibition -- you'll find these sentiments. It's like homophobia at a Southern Baptist convention -- except the artists are onto something.


Rufus, it is interesting to note that Trier has communist parents. I would further note that communists are against Bush and that many artists appear to be communists, if not card carrying.

I now wonder about Kidman appearing in an anti-American film made by a communist. Is she trying to make a statement about America?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 00:45
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Beware of the communist-scientologist conspiracy !
More seriosuly, I think she is merely attempting to make money.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Beware of the communist-scientologist conspiracy !
More seriosuly, I think she is merely attempting to make money.


Kidman is at the level in her career where she can choose between vehicles, all of which make money.

She chose this vehicle. Why?

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
But it is impossible to spend a whole day in a major Turkish city without at least being reminded of the existence of America and its international power.


On the other hand, it is impossible to watch a Hollywood war movie without being reminded of Leni Riefenstahl.

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
Emperor
Khoon Ki Pyasi Dayan (1988)
Nov 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 01:23 Visit Buck Birdseed's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Trier has communist parents [...] an anti-American film made by a communist.


Logic, AmericanStyle™!

Von Trier is some sort of vague, wishy-washy centre-rightist.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed


Logic, AmericanStyle™!

Von Trier is some sort of vague, wishy-washy centre-rightist.


Really?

I don't know a thing about his views except he seems bent on trashing America. No center-rightist would do that.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


Rufus, it is interesting to note that Trier has communist parents. I would further note that communists are against Bush and that many artists appear to be communists, if not card carrying.

I now wonder about Kidman appearing in an anti-American film made by a communist. Is she trying to make a statement about America?




Ned, you really crack me up. His parents were commies so that must mean he's a pinko-commie.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 07:14
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Ned is the moderate Fez .

LulThyme
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Not Yet
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  Old Post 23-05-2003 07:17
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LOL!!!!
moderate Fez
how is that possible
the moderate part of Fez is the empty set...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai




Ned, you really crack me up. His parents were commies so that must mean he's a pinko-commie.


No, that in combination with his trash-America movie. Center-right people do not make trash-America movies. Marxists do.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:28
  Old Post 23-05-2003 08:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


No, that in combination with his trash-America movie. Center-right people do not make trash-America movies. Marxists do.




It keeps getting better and better.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of trashing a movie you have not seen and then complaining about the director because he made a movie set in the States when he has never seen the States.

Here's a question to all of you who are trashing a movie you have not seen.

How does this movie trash the United States. Please provide specific examples from the movie. Quoting a critic isn't good enough unless the critic cites specific examples.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:28
Talking  Old Post 26-05-2003 01:58
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Ha!!

Dogville didn't win the Palms, in fact it didn't get one single prize in Cannes, despite all the publicity and self promotion by my degenerate and narcissistic countryman, Mr. "von" Trier.

He left the festival a broken man and headed home to further nurse his neurosis and beloved navel-contemplation.

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:28
  Old Post 26-05-2003 02:53
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I'll happily pay my $$$ to go see Nicole Kidman, no matter how bad the movie is

cyclotron7 is offline cyclotron7
King
Drowning in Schnitzel
Jan 2001
time: 21:28
  Old Post 26-05-2003 02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by HershOstropoler
On the other hand, it is impossible to watch a Hollywood war movie without being reminded of Leni Riefenstahl.


Odd. Most Hollywood war movies I've seen (Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down, etc.) really make me glad I'm nowhere near those places.

 
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