21-05-2003 19:24									#31
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quote: Originally posted by elijah With the Iraq reconstruction, in all fairness to the Americans, most of the money is US taxpayers, so you'd sort of expect them to give the contracts to US companies. Youd also expect that all over the world, with all governments.

No my point was that how good does it look when the uS gov gives a contract to a bankrupt firmt hat is under investigation. I would have thought it ould make sense to award the contract to a firm whose baord of cirectors aren't likley to be charged with criminal offences.

I have no problem with US firms being awarded contrats paid for by the US taxpayer. I will have a problem if US companies get all the contracts paid for with Iraqi oil money

	21-05-2003 19:26									#32
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Yeah, I think that as long as Iraq is reconstructed and the damage is repaired. I opposed the war, always have, always will, but one has to make the best of a bad situation, for the sake of the Iraqi people.

There are plenty of better areas to critique the war than the issues over reconstruction, granted the US govt could have gone about it better with less secrecy, and its own money rather than oil money in the future, but I cant really complain as much as I can with other areas.

"A speck of common sense flashes"

Surely there is no need to insult me! Einstein said that common sense is merely an aggregation of prejudices one builds up before the age of 18.

	21-05-2003 19:27									#33
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Well I supported the war, doesn't mean I have to like what they do next

	21-05-2003 19:27									#34
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"No my point was that how good does it look when the uS gov gives a contract to a bankrupt firmt hat is under investigation"

Agreed, they could have gone about it in a better way. But as far as my complaints against the USA goes, that is relatively low on the list. At least their going to rebuild Iraq, one way or another, I think they have learned from their "short attention span" in Afghanistan.

	21-05-2003 19:28									#35
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No, no.
I mean you, out of several other people's posts, showed an understanding, Elijah.

	21-05-2003 19:30									#36
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Cheers Slow!! Much appreciated! In all fairness to all, I think all sides have a point on this issue.

	21-05-2003 19:31									#37
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No! Don't show any flexibility of thought!

You won't fit in.

	21-05-2003 19:34									#38
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Ah! I am now beginning to understand Apolyton!

	21-05-2003 19:35									#39
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Maybe they should sign on K-mart to rebuild all of the the shopping centers.

	21-05-2003 19:37									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave Maybe they should sign on K-mart to rebuild all of the the shopping centers.

Wal-Mart has more political pull.

	21-05-2003 19:40									#41
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Tescos!

	21-05-2003 20:02									#42
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quote: Tescos!

Ahhh! *runs screaming in horror at the memory of 3-liter bottles of very cheap cider*

-Arrian

	21-05-2003 20:04									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Ahhh! *runs screaming in horror at the memory of 3-liter bottles of very cheap cider* -Arrian

Every english youth has to go through that phase. Well done for joining us

	21-05-2003 20:24									#44
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Actually, I avoided actually drinking that particular cider. However, I do recall a rather nasty hangover caused by chugging 2 pints of cider in the midst of a normal night's drinking (beer.... beer.... CIDER CIDER.... beer.... beer... OUCH).

The reason I remember the 3-liter bottle stuff is one of the guys in my dorm (they stuck the Americans in with the Freshmen) used to get shitcanned on that stuff all the time... just the smell of it was enough to warn me off.

-Arrian

	21-05-2003 20:26									#45
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The Iraqi reconstruction will be one of the largest pork projects in the history of America. Liberation indeed.

	21-05-2003 20:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Every english youth has to go through that phase. Well done for joining us

I had enough taste to skip the cider stage completely and go straight to beer

how many of these no-bid contracts have been given to companies whose former board members include people from the current US administration?

	21-05-2003 20:36									#47
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"You know well that those who stand to profit by war are not on our side in this campaign." -- FDR...

	21-05-2003 20:36									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian they stuck the Americans in with the Freshmen

When I was at uni that was because most 2nd and 3rd year students moved out of the uni accommodation into rented accommodation, there wasn't enough for everyone to stay in the uni run accommodation throughout their entire course. They always offer uni accommodation to overseas students though.

	21-05-2003 20:48									#49
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Mike,

I'm sure that was part of it. But lots of the 2nd/3rd year students lived in dorms at St. Andrews - just much nicer ones closer to town. Mine was a 1/2 hour walk (or 10 minute bike ride) out.

-Arrian

	21-05-2003 20:51									#50
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damn, WorldCom again?

I've been pulling all along for AT&T...

	21-05-2003 22:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by elijah With the Iraq reconstruction, in all fairness to the Americans, most of the money is US taxpayers, so you'd sort of expect them to give the contracts to US companies. Youd also expect that all over the world, with all governments.

As far as I know, they want the Iraqis to pay them back with oil money.

	21-05-2003 22:25									#52
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quote: As far as I know, they want the Iraqis to pay them back with oil money.

If only cost of sand would increase... would that be better?

	21-05-2003 22:34									#53
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Saddam Hussein has been stockpiling oil for years. What would happen if that big glut was released on the market at once (byebye OPEC power). Lower global oil prices, then US companies sign contracts with Iraqi manufacturers. Cheap oil, thankyou very much.

Sure the money will go into that UN trust fund, and be used to rebuild Iraq, although that money should come from the US pocket... cleaning up their mess, in this sense, and the sense that they are partly responsible for Saddam staying in power so long... but that money will be less than what it could be.

About as watertight as a sieve that trust fund idea is. No wonder they dont want the UN involved.

Its my theory at least. Any thoughts... serious intelligent thoughts, if you want to flame, go to www.freebsd.org.

	21-05-2003 22:41									#54
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quote: Sure the money will go into that UN trust fund, and be used to rebuild Iraq, although that money should come from the US pocket... cleaning up their mess, in this sense, and the sense that they are partly responsible for Saddam staying in power so long... but that money will be less than what it could be.

I'm at a loss of words, and find it hard not to flame.

	21-05-2003 22:46									#55
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intelligent!

Shouldnt the reconstruction money come from the US pocket? If not, why not? It seems that one repairs the mess one creates. If I were a plumber, who refused to patch up a wall, I wouldnt expect to get paid.

	21-05-2003 22:49									#56
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By the way, if you are puzzled over the:

"the sense that they are partly responsible for Saddam staying in power so long" comment,

Then I refer to the help given to Saddam Hussein by the US, strengthening his position and aiding his survival, during the 1980 - 1988 Iran/Iraq war.

	21-05-2003 22:50									#57
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Sure the money will go into that UN trust fund, and be used to rebuild Iraq, although that money should come from the US pocket... cleaning up their mess, in this sense, and the sense that they are partly responsible for Saddam staying in power so long... but that money will be less than what it could be.

I find it laughable that before the war people told us Iraq was none of our business, and now apparently the whole situation is "our mess." Pardon me, but if it's our mess, why didn't you cram the protests and let us clean house?

	21-05-2003 22:51									#58
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Since were going with hypotheticals:

Say you need to move, and you don't have enough money to hire movers, rent a truck, etc... So, you ask all your friends to help you. Most of them make up lame excuses or fall of the face of the planet for some reason. The only two to come to your aid are Sam and Jack, and the begin to help you move. In the course of doing so they break a mirror of yours. Now, are you going to ask them to replace the mirror? Or, would you thank them for the help, since you really needed it, and replace it yourself?

By the way limey, the UK was involved in this whole mess too, but by no means should the rest of the world reap the profit of war that the US took (there I said it). Yet, the Iraqi people will get what is theres... It is the price of freedom.

	21-05-2003 22:54									#59
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quote: By the way, if you are puzzled over the: "the sense that they are partly responsible for Saddam staying in power so long" comment, Then I refer to the help given to Saddam Hussein by the US, strengthening his position and aiding his survival, during the 1980 - 1988 Iran/Iraq war.

And I would galdly point the finger at the UN for everything since 1992, and then the finger at France for everything since 2002. Being "partly" responsible does mean that one should incur the whole cost.

All I know is that the coalition is wholy responsible for the situation now, and we deal with it as we see fit.

	21-05-2003 22:58									#60
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I don't understand what is so bad about this. Worldcom/MCI has the experience and capability to do this. The fraud regarded financial accounting, not its ability to complete a contract successfully. Further, as pointed out above, the people who did that are now gone from the company.

As far as I know, they want the Iraqis to pay them back with oil money.

Why don't you just say that you don't know? Why would the US require this?