22-05-2003 07:05									#1
	RoN vs Civ2 Comparison Remove this text

The game isn't out in Australia yet but I'm thinking of buying of it.

Could someone who is a civ 2 fan, particularly a civ2 multiplayer geek, please give a hardcore civ2 player some idea of the similarities and differences? I'm interested in the views of vet civ2 players, not someone who has only played the game a couple of times.

I'm a confirmed TBS fan and am a little wary of buying an RTS. Like, do the maps look like a world with continents and so forth? How many cities can you build? Can you stop play at certain points? Does the host or the person with the fastest connection get an advantage in multiplayer? Is it possible to play long games without much warfare? How big are the maps? oes the host get a starting tech? (Aargh!!!) Are "diplo" games possible? How about teams?

To give you some idea of where I live on the player scale, I play 1x1x deity civ 2 with a dedicated band of friends. We'll spend up to 30 hours over about 10 sessions and a couple of months playing out a civ 2 game. Usually with 4 players. We play a couple of nights a week, like a poker school.

Thanks.

	22-05-2003 07:12									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

AH, it's an RTS game. It's pretty similar to any other RTS game. If you hate RTS games, you likely won't enjoy it.

It is a superb RTS game, perhaps the best since the original AoE. But it's still and RTS game.

You can't spend days playing it...Most games finish in an hour or two.

The maps are the square isometric ones, like in all RTS games. You are limited in cities based on your technology level, though civ-specific bonuses and Wonders can enhance this. The most I've had (demo) is 9.

Download the demo, it's available. You'll see it all for yourself.

	22-05-2003 07:14									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm on a dial up - probably can't download the demo.

	22-05-2003 07:21									#4
	Support Apolyton

If a friend has cable/DSL and a CD burner, you could get it that way.

	22-05-2003 07:31									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

From one Troll to another.. I get that warm fuzzy feeling..remember?.."Just One More Turn" while this is a RTS not TBS...it sure makes you wanna have fun and keep at it.

The ai is superb..and I also love how the units upgrade themselves..while some games dont..

My suggestion is if you can handle a good RTS game this be da Bomb fer you!

Also, unlike many here Mr. AH, the ai dont put up with a lot of BULL$H!T..so be nice or be dead..ai gonna come fer you!!

Enjoy my friend!

Peace


Grandpa Troll

	22-05-2003 07:54									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Recommended retail price in Australia is $99.95

That's almost $70 US. So it better be good.

	22-05-2003 08:08									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oof, that's a bit much. I'd definitely not plunk that much down without checking out a demo, by whatever means I could.

	22-05-2003 08:16									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Recommended retail price in Australia is $99.95 That's almost $70 US. So it better be good.

whats it cost to ship something to aussietania? would it be cheaper it online from ebgames or whatever?

	22-05-2003 08:24									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Probably would be cheaper - the Aussie peso has appreciated significantly against the greenback in recent months - from about 48 cents - 67 cents, approaching 70.

	22-05-2003 08:25									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The single player game allows unlimited pausing during which you can issue any orders you want, so it can be played very much like Civ2. In multiplayer you don't pause (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but there are other options for Civ-style players. First, the game has speed settings so you can slow it down (as long as all players agree during game setup). Second, there is something called "cannon time" which is like super, super slow motion and which each player can invoke a certain pre-arranged number of times per game. With the slowest speed and cannon time, a lot of the time pressure is removed. As for overall game length, the standard game will take less than an hour (of game time, which will be more if you play on a slow speed setting). However the game setup options let you configure things to take much much longer if you want, primarily by making research more expensive and slower.

I'm a TBS fan (Civ, Col, Civ2, SMAC, Civ3) who has tried RTS before (Age of Kings) but never really been able to get into it. The speed of RTS was always a problem for me, but it also always bothered me that you couldn't play "optimally" because the speed requirement always forced you into mistakes like leaving units idle or attacking with the wrong unit type. In fact it always bothered me that AoK seemed to have such a great game model with a lot of strategic depth, yet a lot of it just flew by unexplored due to the speed. RoN is still definitely RTS - make no mistake about it - but I am enjoying it so far.

	22-05-2003 08:49									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, I got a hold of this game from a friend, I can't say it's that great. Sure, the Graphics are awesome, and the sound is as good as any other RTS game, but to buy this game because of that is not a good idea (unless you get off on how realistically sh*t blows up.) My suggestion would be to not pay for it until it goes to the bargain rack, or people start returning it.

Also make sure you have like all the upgrades possible for your computer, I spend a LONG time downloading video drivers so the game would run, and then was dissappointed by the minimal differences from other RTS games.

Personally, I would stick with Civ2 if I were you, it took me 2 years to get bored with that, it took me 2 HOURS to get bored with RoN.

	22-05-2003 08:57									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Metaliturtle Well, I got a hold of this game from a friend, I can't say it's that great. Sure, the Graphics are awesome, and the sound is as good as any other RTS game, but to buy this game because of that is not a good idea (unless you get off on how realistically sh*t blows up.) My suggestion would be to not pay for it until it goes to the bargain rack, or people start returning it. Also make sure you have like all the upgrades possible for your computer, I spend a LONG time downloading video drivers so the game would run, and then was dissappointed by the minimal differences from other RTS games. Personally, I would stick with Civ2 if I were you, it took me 2 years to get bored with that, it took me 2 HOURS to get bored with RoN.

I dissagre, RON is the best RTS out there and is well worth the 50 bucks(US dollar) I paid for it.

	22-05-2003 09:04									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I dissagre, RON is the best RTS out there and is well worth the 50 bucks(US dollar) I paid for it.

I disagree, RON is NOT the best RTS out there, and I feel like I've been ripped off after paying NOTHING for it!

The team spent too much space on graphics, and not enough on strategy (although I will admit that this game could kick MEGA Arse in multiplayer, I'm seeing people unlike myself spending solid months playing this game and thrashing me, which is no fun, but my friends and I could have one or two kick ass nights of RON action)

Seriously though, I can't find a good speed to play at with this game, it's either too slow or too fast, and I find myself changing speeds and/or pausing constantly.

	22-05-2003 13:28									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

AH, Boris's first post says it all, granted I only played the demo (so far(?)), but it is a full blown RTS with a few TBS influences.
It's a good,well polished game with a lot of really nice touches and innovations but that doesn't alter the fact that it is a RTS game.

	22-05-2003 16:31									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

>The team spent too much space on graphics, and not enough on strategy

Wow! A strange opinion - most people are saying that the graphics are nothing special, but the gameplay rulez. And yes, if you play C&C Generals, you can see that the RON graphics, by comparison, are nothing special.

But the gameplay really is great, IMHO.

I reckon it's just not the sort of game you like to play - but for the rest of us, it's a really great game.

	22-05-2003 18:14									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've almost convinced myself to get it. I'll give you my thoughts when i do.

	22-05-2003 18:19									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

Whomever said the sound and graphics are better than the game itself is...well, nuts.

The graphics and sound are subpar compared to AoK and other recent RTS games. This is substantiated by the bulk of critical reviews (check out Gamespot for instance).

Where RoN shines is its gameplay and strategy. It really does ramp up RTS games to a new level. That being said, it's still a RTS game, and I don't think it will make any new converts among the die-hard RTS-haters. For me, it is entertaining as a diversion, but not substantial enough to hold my imagination for long.

	22-05-2003 18:26									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Makeo I've almost convinced myself to get it. I'll give you my thoughts when i do.

We can take our warfare to a new format

	22-05-2003 20:35									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Really Horsie, you need to read some threads here too, preferrably those by Yin.

Try to get a demo through a friend or something... and the game's well worth it. I am also a fan of RTS, but I have never had an RTS that would come even nearly close to how much I like civ. Now I have.

Oh, and while a typical game lasts 1-2 hours, you can make lots of tweaks in settings. Make it so that research is slow and expensive, and you can spend 2 hours and only be halfway up the techtree.

	22-05-2003 22:57									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm loving the demo, and I was never fond of RTSs...

	23-05-2003 00:40									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Solver Really Horsie, you need to read some threads here too, preferrably those by Yin. Try to get a demo through a friend or something... and the game's well worth it. I am also a fan of RTS, but I have never had an RTS that would come even nearly close to how much I like civ. Now I have. Oh, and while a typical game lasts 1-2 hours, you can make lots of tweaks in settings. Make it so that research is slow and expensive, and you can spend 2 hours and only be halfway up the techtree.

(Troll Hugs Solver )

Now your my next Hero Solver!



(Hopes he dont get an invite to Solver-Hall)

I am glad someone else with credentials, as I seem to be fresh out of them, sees the improvement that RON has made!!


Keep on enjoying this game folks, it is definetly worth the bucks to purchase the game!

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	23-05-2003 00:50									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Let me just add here that RTS games generally are not my favorites although, I did enjoy AoK for a time but have not been able to sustain enough interest in any RTS game recently to play for more than a day. Of the last half dozen RTS titles I tried the demo for not one has survived on my HD for even 24 hours.

Until RoN!

To put it mildly, this game rocks! Or, in stronger terms, this game ROCKS!!!

I downloaded the demo when it became available and have been playing non-stop ever since. I just got the full game yesterday, and I am finding being here at work to be an almost unbearable pain! It has been a LONG time since I have been this excited about any game and I know I have only just scratched the surface of this gem! Hurrah for the Memorial (3 day) weekend!

John

	23-05-2003 06:00									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Solver Really Horsie, you need to read some threads here too, preferrably those by Yin.

I do - but the civ2 community is hard core and close knit. makeo's opinion will matter more to me because I know he's evil.

	23-05-2003 20:27									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

One of differences is : in civ2 you have to take care
off every single unit (and that takes a lot of your
time especially by the end of the game when you
have a lot of units and you know you are winning
the game).In civ2 units are very valuable (many
turns to produce) ,so healing them is important.

In RoN you have to focus on economy and putting out
the units you need for your strategy.It's almost
impossible give orders to every unit.When your units
are injured and close to your barraks or another
specific building you can heal them,on the battlefield
most of the time you can't save them.Just make sure
you've got enough resources the produce new ones.

	23-05-2003 21:02									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

AH:

Putting your trust in a fellow hard-core TBSer is a good move. I admit that I have over the past years put far more time in to RTS, though GalCiv brought me back into the fold!

Let's face it, though: the things that I like most about, say, Civ2 are being able to analyze data, minutely optimize resource settings, take a sip of beer while pondering the next turn, etc. No pressure, just fun intellectual exercise.

In RoN, the best data analysis screen comes only after the game is over! You *can* optimize resource gathering, but it's in real-time and requires some physical dexterity unless you pause the game often (no harm there, though). And if you try to sip a beer while playing an unpaused session of RoN, you'll likely have as much beer spilled on the keyboard as you would have in your mouth.

Having said that, I think RoN is by far your best look at what a real-time, pausable Civ would look like ... and with a free demo just sitting there for there taking, you at least owe it to yourself to run it through the paces, if for no other reason to reaffirm that nothing (or very little) about RTS appeals to you, no matter how Civ-i-fied it might be.

	23-05-2003 22:16									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: I do - but the civ2 community is hard core and close knit. makeo's opinion will matter more to me because I know he's evil.

While not hardcore Civ2 MPers like you, Yin and me are still hardcore TBS players. And I must say that every other RTS game has only held my interest for so long. I played AoK for total of a year. Age of Mythology got less cool in 3 months. Empire Earth expired in just over 2 weeks. Note - this is not to say I abandon these games, but I stop playing them so intensely. And, I notice the flaws rather quickly - I loved Age of Mythology ever since I got the beta, but I came to quickly see the flaws of it.

With RoN, I can thus far see no serious flaws, although I am doing my best to notice them. And, I am sure that this game will not be getting repetitive.

And my final advice... get Ming to buy this game, and ask him. Or Rah.