22-05-2003 18:39									#1
	A "New" Simulation everyone can run. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've included both APO(us) and CDG in this Simulation.

I used the Civ3 editor to make this. I tried using Gramphos's editor, but when I tried to run the game in "de-Bug" mode and/or "Hot-Seat" the file wouldn't load in the game. It kept crashing.

So I had to make a few adjustments. Since I couldn't add food, shields, and beakers to the scenario; I came up with an alternate plan.

To replace the shields that each city had accumulated up to turn 57, I put in extra units in the game so I could 'disband' them for the number of shields I needed in each city.

To replace the food in the storage box I just added one extra pop point for Incensity and Apolyton since their bins were nearly full. I left Mingapulco's and Banatopia's alone. I did the same for CDG's cities. I gave Elucidium and Zarigueya an extra pop point.

To replace the beakers; I decided to first to determine how long it would take for each Civ to research what both teams have agreed to research according to our tech agreement. I find that APO could finnish reaserching Map Making and then go to HBR and be finnished in 17 turns from turn 58. CDG would be 20 turns away if I gave them credit for having Mathematics already half way done. This may have been too generous seeing how we saw them at 0% just a short while ago.

So to accomplish this I gave those techs to each team and I set the research rate for each civ to aquire HBR (for APO) and Philosophy (for CDG) so that they would finnish at the prescribed times and then put up the "happiness" slider so that nearly no gold would be banked during this time. This is critical to do this. Anyone wanting to run this simulation must leave the slider's where they are until APO and CDG have respectivly researched HBR and Philosophy at the rates I set for each Civ.

I am attaching the scenario and the game save file that is preset for shields, food and tech. I fyou want to play the Simulation, just download the "save" file. If you want to mess around with the scenario I made for this, it is here too. The game starts on turn 58 (1575 BC).

Scenario; it is not a zip file, rename to .bix


This is the game save file; it loads as a "Hot Seat" game in De-Bug mode. Use 1.14 only


I also ran this Simulation under the premise that neither CDG or APO would get any other Techs from the other Civ's in trade or otherwise. While I strongly believe that APO could easily keep the trade agreement with GCA that has us giving MM and HBR to GCA for Mysticism and Polytheism; I also belive that CDG will have a hard time trying to trade 14 points of research to GCA for Myst and Poly (16 points). Though it might not happen, we will still consider it. What I won't consider is GCA trading anything else to CDG. GCA got a leg up on everyone with a free settler and maybe got some techs out of huts, who knows. But I belive that GCA will be finnished with Polytheism before we finish with HBR. Once GCA hit's Monarchy, they will not look back at CDG. Even if CDG researches Currency right after Philosophy; GCA will have already finished Monarchy and would Have started on either Currency or Construction. So keep this in mind when considering results and where both Civs stand techwise in my run and in your run of this simulation.

I'm not going to try and go too deep here on who's researching what and how long. The important thing about this Simulation is to realize that with CDG not building a Granery early on, They have missed out on the growth spurt that we will now have in two cities. CDG opted instead for a barracks; an indication that someone might get a wake-up call soon! But, CDG is so far behind at this point, in growth potential, in order to catch up, they would have to forgo almost all Military build-up to catch us; then it would take at least 60-80 turns to do so, depending on how much we invest in Military endeavor's.

In my first run of this Simulation, I went for a 60% infrastructure build with a 40% Military build for APO and just slightly more infrastructure for CDG. I wanted to see where this would lead both teams. I will try another run at going for the earliest Military build-up for CDG.

APO

code:

turn year     Commerce City Sett Work Warr Arch Merc Swrd Hors Gall Brks Granery Temp Cats
 10   1350       25     5    0    4     9    0    3    0    0    0    3      2    0    0
 25   1000       36     8    0    5     9    0    5    3    0    0    3      2    0    0
 35   750        44     10   1    7     9    0    5    7    0    0    5      2    0    0
 45   550        53     11   1    8     9    0    6    9    0    0    5      2    0    1
 55   350        108    12   0    11    10   0    7    9    0    0    5      2    2    1
 65   150        118    12   0    16    10   0    8    13   2    1    5      2    4    1 
 75   50AD       127    13   0    20    10   0    9    19   3    1    5      2    5    1

code:

turn year    Commerce City Sett Work Warr Arch Spear Immt Hors Gall Brks Granery Temp Cats
 10  1350       16     4    0     2    4    0    3    2     0    0    1      0    0    0
 25  1000       28     6    0     3    4    0    3    4     0    0    2      1    0    0
 35   750       44     7    0     4    4    0    4    7     0    0    2      1    0    0
 45   550       45     9    0     6    4    0    4    8     0    0    2      2    0    0
 55   350       47     10   0     11   4    0    4    10    0    0    3      2    0    1
 65   150       59     10   0     14   4    0    5    14    0    0    3      2    0    1
 75   50AD      72     10   0     14   4    0    6    15    0    0    4      2    0    2

In both of these Civ's cases I did not upgrade the Warriors, though cash for both Civ's was available to do so.





Other notes for APO:

(16)1200 BC APO discover's HBR and ths has both MM and HBR.

(31)850 BC CoL discovered. APO can either go for Republic in:

• 27 turns with +2 to the treasury
  
• 22 turns with -4 to the treasury
  
• 40 turns with +25 to the treasury
  
• I went with 22 turns.
  

(50)450 BC discovered Republic; change Goverment (4 turns)

(54)370 BC Out of Anarchy; Currency in 8 turns or Construction in 15 turns @ +3 to treasury. 360 gold in treasury.

(65)150 BC discovered Construction; Currency in 8 turns at +2 to treasury.

(73)10 AD discovered Currency; Now in Middle Ages!


Other Notes for CDG:

(16) 1200 BC discovered Philosophy and thus Mathematics also. CDG goes for Currency.

(37) 710 BC discovers Currency. CDG goes for Construction.

(57) 310 BC discovers Construction. CDG now goes for CoL.

(63) 190 BC discovers CoL. CDG goes for HBR.

(67) 110 BC discovers HBR. CDG goes for Myst.

(71) 30 BC discovers Myst. CDG goes for Polytheism.

(75) 50 AD CDG is 8 turns from Polytheism.

Last edited by BigFree on 10-06-2003 at 12:29

	23-05-2003 07:18									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Should you be showing that map of CDG?!

	23-05-2003 07:33									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's all "simulated." The map is based upon what we know in the game and nothing else, so there's no harm.

	23-05-2003 07:59									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

did you actually respect the border for the amount of time agreed upon?

	23-05-2003 08:01									#5
	Remove this text

Respect the border?

	23-05-2003 14:16									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Fith City"? Bah, CDG can't even spell their own city names.

	23-05-2003 15:41									#7
	Put an end to popups!

It should be "Filth City" if you ask me.

Good job on constructing this scenario!

	23-05-2003 17:21									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster "Fith City"? Bah, CDG can't even spell their own city names.

Yeah, Yeah, that's the ticket, you see, Kentonio was helping me run this simulation and he said.......



Panzer, I didn't cross over the border that we will agree to. Though I could have after the agreement was scheduled to end, but I didn't.

Thanks, Shiber.

I want some other people to play it through. It'll give you a good feel for what we and they are up against.

	23-05-2003 17:51									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Panzer, I didn't cross over the border that we will agree to. Though I could have after the agreement was scheduled to end, but I didn't.

Actually, 3rd city and Sabratha would be in violation of the border agreement, but only if they were actually founded before time ran out.

	23-05-2003 18:00									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Actually, 3rd city and Sabratha would be in violation of the border agreement, but only if they were actually founded before time ran out.

I do not think so - currently, we are willing to go with a settlement line right in the middle between our and their capitals. I do not think we have ever even considered creating a 2-tile "no-man land" between us (grabbable by cultural borders only). That would hurt our city placement plans too much.

If they want that border, they will have to agree that cultural borders of cities placed on the "right" side of the border may actually influence the actual border.

	23-05-2003 18:03									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Actually, 3rd city and Sabratha would be in violation of the border agreement, but only if they were actually founded before time ran out.

Apolyton has two cities on the border and CDG has one; neither team has violated the agreement. The cultural borders extend past it, but that is not a part of the agreement. We didn't settle past the line nor move Military units past the line.

	02-06-2003 03:03									#12
	An Updated Sim! :) Put an end to popups!

I have updated the Simulation up to turn 63. I've also been successful with Gramphos's new version of the C3MT to edit in Aplotyon's exact amount of food, shields, gold, and accumulated research. I was also able to set units to their prescribed strength along with placing the Barb encampment. The game placed another encampment, but I couldn't edit it out, only the units, oh well.

I played one turn on the game in HotSeat Mode, then saved the file to what is available here. The game is set-up to allow you to save along the way, but you cannot re-load from within the game. Just load the game as you would any other game. It defaults to HotSeat Mode as well as DEBUG mode. You are playing both Civ's, CDG and APO, one turn right after the other and can see all units during either turn.

As the real game progresses, I can continue to edit this Sim to include what we know of CDG's activities and where they settle and when they get certain techs and so on.

Here's the Turn 63 Simulation.

I might be able toplay this today or tommorow. I will post the results when I am finnished. I urge other member's to play it too. Try to follow ET's build/work order's that he has posted to the moment. You can also run it as you see fit, but if you post results, please indicate how you did things.

EDIT: There's an extra settler on the Northern ice shelf, please disband him immediatley.

Also, there's a time in the game as each Civ get to it's first reasearch goal that the game seems to lock up. Just give it a few minutes to come out of it. It will, trust me.

It must have something to do with using Gramphos's editor on the Tech values. I edited in values for both APO and CDG having had partial research on the current tech's we are researching.

Last edited by BigFree on 02-06-2003 at 10:35

	02-06-2003 04:03									#13
	Put an end to popups!

For the simulations, I would like for people to keep track of how much Barb money is made. Then we can plan for 75% of that for an actual amount that we make.

I would also like to see what Research/Tax %'s gives us our 160 Gold Researve and then the other amounts to upgrade the warriors (and other things if we wait to attack CDG until we get Feudalism).

Plan for the worst and hope for the best....

MoI E_T

	02-06-2003 14:13									#14
	Re: A "New" Simulation everyone can run. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This was a try at going for the earliest Military build-up for CDG with some emphasis on growth. I did not build as many worker's for either Civ as I did last time.

APO

code:

turn   year     Commerce City Sett Work Warr Arch Merc Swrd Hors Gall Brks Granery 
 64    1425       20      5    0    4     7    0    4    0    0    0    1      2   
 74    1175       24      5    2    5     10   0    5    0    0    1    2      2   
 84    925        36      8    1    5     10   0    8    0    0    2    3      2   
 94    690        47      10   1    6     10   0    10   4    0    2    4      2   
 104   490        57      11   0    7     10   0    12   11   0    2    4      2   
 114   290        106     12   0    10    10   0    12   15   0    2    5      2    
 124   90         126     12   0    14    2    0    13   30   0    2    5      2   

code:

turn   year     Commerce City Sett Work Warr Arch Spear Immo Hors Gall Brks Granery 
 64    1425       15      4    0    2     4    0    3    4    0    0    1      0   
 74    1175       25      6    0    3     5    0    5    4    0    0    1      0   
 84    925        28      6    1    4     5    0    5    4    0    0    2      0   
 94    690        36      7    0    5     5    0    8    7    0    0    3      0   
 104   490        41      8    0    6     5    0    8    9    0    0    3      0   
 114   290        47      9    0    8     5    0    8    14   0    0    4      0    
 124   90         55      9    0    11    5    0    9    20   0    0    4      0   

Last edited by BigFree on 02-06-2003 at 14:19

	02-06-2003 17:21									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The +50 odd GPT between turns 103 and 106, BEFORE Republic - was that a result of 100% tax, or were we producing that much and researching simultaneously? Either way that augurs well for building Warriors.

Looks like we may be able to revise down the estimate of time to get to Republic. If without any trades we make it within 40 turns, then WITH trades we may make it in 30 or less. But at the same time we can't be complacent. This is of course an unpredictable game, and we should take heart from these results, yet keep our caution.

Overall very encouraging stuff, E_T.

	03-06-2003 01:43									#16
	Suffering from ads?

The collumn labled 'commerce' isn't gold per turn, but what income is per turn. In other words, it's what gets divided up into the sliders (gpt, research, happiness) and also corruption and maintenance costs. It's the gross commerce we have available, not the net.

Sorry for the confusion.

	03-06-2003 02:51									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Looking good BF

I would just like to know how much you make in Barb Farming?

MoI E_T

	03-06-2003 03:34									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I counted 7 Barb encampments destroyed by APO @ 25 gold each and 4 Barb encampments destroyed for CDG @25 gold each