29-05-2003 02:28									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A terrible, terrible game - typically dour and defensive. I don't know why I bothered staying home - I knew it was an all Italian final.

I think Juve were robbed. Dida was clearly moving off the line before the ball was struck in Juve's third kick - and the referee did nothing.

So not only was it a bad game, but it was decided by the referee's incompetence.

	29-05-2003 02:31									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Poorly placed kicks =\

	29-05-2003 02:35									#33
	Suffering from ads?

Juventus FC - Milan AC 0-0

Champions League winner: Milan AC
Losing Finalist: Juventus FC

Topscorer: Van Nistelrooy
Second place: Inzaghi

code:
 1 OneFootInTheGrave  382 (+30)
 2 Locutus            377 (+20)
 3 Paul               359 (+10)
 4 Zopperoni          356 (+6)
 5 Wernazuma III      349
 6 MikeH              337
 7 Yaroslav           325
 8 Big Crunch (SD)    272 (+10)
 8 Fergus Horkan      272
10 Wille              263
11 Eli                262
12 Sloth              238
13 Notyoueither       224 (+10)
14 CyberShy           223
15 Giovanni Wine      215 (+16)
16 Lars-E             130
17 Fiera              127
18 Academia            98 (+10)
19 End Is Forever      89 (+10)
20 Azazel (Dalgetti)   83
21 FrustratedPoet      69
22 Fistandantilus      68
23 Zealot              47
24 Victor Galis        46
25 Sirotnikov          42
26 Bas                 33
27 Daz                 30
28 Boddington's        21
29 JohnIII             17
30 Saint Marcus        15
31 Datajack Franit     10 (+10)
32 Dr. Stiby            4
33 Juggler              2
34 Pekka                0
34 Rothy                0

code:
 1 Locutus            724
 2 Zopperoni          708
 3 OneFootInTheGrave  703
 4 Paul               693
 5 Wernazuma III      668
 6 Eli                590
 7 Big Crunch (SD)    585
 8 Notyoueither       568
 9 Wille              560
10 CyberShy           466
11 Giovanni Wine      355
12 Fiera              308
13 Azazel (Dalgetti)  139
14 FrustratedPoet     137
15 Bas                117
16 Daz                 71

	29-05-2003 02:37									#34
	Got spare money?

Cool, three different winners for each Pred. League

Congratulations to Locutus for winning the Combo-game!

	29-05-2003 02:37									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Thanks again Paul for organising the competition so effectively. 8

	29-05-2003 02:43									#36
	Tired of ads?

I think this is the first time during the whole game that I have been first and the Dutch (and Pauls) domination was finally broken...

Congrats Locutus, and thanks Paul when is the new round?Or will there be another one?

	29-05-2003 02:45									#37
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni Poorly placed kicks =\

Doesn't alter the fact that Dida was well off his line for the winning kick.

	29-05-2003 02:49									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I didn't notice that actually, but I'll take your word for it.

The first half wasn't really bad even though there weren't any goals.

********************

Yes, thanks Paul for your fantastic effort in organizing these three leagues

Are you going to start a thread to discuss next year's league soon? (I have an idea that can be experimented with in the UC League.)

	29-05-2003 02:59									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Zopperoni, we can discuss next year's league here. Earlier in this thread OFITG has suggested posting predictions for the final in a pm instead of in the thread so that you won't know what the others have predicted. That sounds like an interesting idea.

OFITG, I haven't found the match dates for the new season on the UEFA site, but the first qualifying round usually starts in July, so you can expect the new game to start then.

	29-05-2003 03:16									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Whoo waiting for the next season :excited:

well as for the pm in the last round, I think this is a must for the game to remain fair until the end, this one was a little dodgy, but well I couldn't resist to change the score either, so luckily I won... but it would be fairer if we have to post a pm to Paul for the last round of the league in a years time if you still have a chance to win during that round.

	29-05-2003 03:24									#41
	Suffering from ads?

OK, Paul.

The idea of a "pool of points" crossed my mind the other day.
I'll illustrate the idea with an example:

1) Suppose we're in the quarter final, which means there are four matches.
2) A number of points is attached to a match, e.g. six. This means that the total "pool of points" for four matches is (4*6 =) 24.
3) Now, a participant in the pred. league uses the pool as his stakes for the game:

If there is a tough matchup, like perhaps Deportivo - Arsenal, a player could predict a draw, but he only "bets" three points on it.
A player can also be confident about the outcome of a match. If he thinks Real will beat Newcastle for instance, he can "bet" ten points on it.

Obviously, there should be a minimum and maximum of points that players can "bet" on for each match. In this case, a minimum of two and a maximum of ten is possible.


So, basically, this idea has the following two implications:
1) A score is not predicted anymore, it's all about the state of the outcome (home win, away win, or draw); and
2) A player determines his own points. Taking risk can be rewarded greatly.


Any thoughts?

	29-05-2003 04:13									#42
	Suffering from ads?

Thank you Paul for the community service

And congrats to all the winners

	29-05-2003 04:18									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Does anyone want to play fantasy football next season? The BBC has a good free online game which has the benefit of allowing you to organise your own leagues. I think there are enough people on here for an Apolyton league and I'd quite like to set "Ag's Mags" against all comers.

I don't mind volunteering to administer the league (there's virtually no work involved anyway).

	29-05-2003 05:11									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

UEFA has a fantasy football league of its own as well. I participated, but forgot all about it, so my sucked.

Besides, there were only five of us in it this season. If there's more participation next season, maybe we could really get something going.

	29-05-2003 05:17									#45
	Suffering from ads?

I'm up for it Like this year looked good, but with PMs for the final.

	29-05-2003 05:19									#46
	Increase the size of your Attachments

OK - I'll look for signups at the end of August. The Beeb one is fairly easy to use, but I'll look at the UEFA one. Given the number of English speakers on here it would probably be easier to stick with the EPL - Besides I must have Alan Shearer as my centre forward.

	29-05-2003 05:27									#47
	Increase Your PM Length

Nah, Rooney all the way New wonderkid, with something to back up the hype

	29-05-2003 05:28									#48
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I had Van Nistelrooy, Makaay, and Ibrahimovic in my squad this season.

Those were the only good moves I made o_O

	29-05-2003 17:46									#49
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, congrats, OFITG, a deserved win (even if you needed a little bit of help to get there )

And I didn't get around to this earlier, but congrats to Zop for winning the UEFA Cup game, another well deserved win (Although, if NYE hadn't given up after the winter break... )

The first time I participate in this game and immediately I win two 2nd places and 1 victory

And a big thank you to Paul from me as well, for organising this game year-after-year



As for next year, I agree that a PM for the final would probably be a good idea. I really didn't like how the final round was more about getting a unique score than about correctly predicting the outcome

I don't think I would really fancy Zop's suggestion though, sounds a bit too complicated to me. It would be a crime for Paul to have to manage, it would deter new people from joining in and it would take a lot more time and effort to participate. As it is, I usually spend only a few minutes (or even seconds, in the later stages) making my predictions, and I would like to keep it that way...

One other suggestion that I would like to throw into the group for discussion: predicting who goes through to the next round. Not just for the CL groups like we did this year, but for every match in the UEFA Cup and the Quarter and Semi Finals in the CL. So if Celtic plays Liverpool in the UEFA Cup, you would not only predict the scores of the home and away games (e.g. 2-1 and 1-3), but also who wins the aggregate score (e.g. Liverpool goes through), or possibly even what the exact aggregate score will be (e.g. 3-4 or 4-4, Liverpool goes through). You would have to submit this prediction at the same time as the prediction for the first match of course.
One problem with this might be for Paul to manage this, as I see no easy way to implement this in Excel...

BTW, all Dutchies go to this thread: a discussion for an Apolyton meet this summer, where we can (among other things) celebrate our successes in the prediction poules together

Last edited by Locutus on 29-05-2003 at 17:51

	29-05-2003 18:05									#50
	Got spare money?

Oh yes, and another suggestion I had for the UEFA Cup was to delay the "End winner prediction" until the CL dropouts have entered the tournament.

	29-05-2003 18:24									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Didn't we do that already this year?

	29-05-2003 18:30									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't remember, to be honest o_O

If we did, then mea culpa.

	29-05-2003 19:47									#53
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Pekka, if it wasnt you for, I'd shoot myself!

	29-05-2003 19:54									#54
	Put an end to popups!

Zopperoni, we already predicted the UEFA Cup winner after the CL dropouts joined.

And my reply to Locutus:

quote: As for next year, I agree that a PM for the final would probably be a good idea. I really didn't like how the final round was more about getting a unique score than about correctly predicting the outcome

I really like this idea. Of course, we would have to find some way to let me also make my predictions. I would suggest that I pm my prediction to one or more of the other people. We could use pm send tracking to make sure that I don't read other people's predictions before I make mine. Or we could have a neutral outsider who collects our predictions and posts them after the deadline.

quote: I don't think I would really fancy Zop's suggestion though, sounds a bit too complicated to me. It would be a crime for Paul to have to manage, it would deter new people from joining in and it would take a lot more time and effort to participate. As it is, I usually spend only a few minutes (or even seconds, in the later stages) making my predictions, and I would like to keep it that way...

Managing would probably not be a very big problem. Adding an extra column for those points and a sum at the bottom of that column to make sure that people don't assign more points than they have should be easy.

But I agree with Locutus that most people would not want to spend that much time on posting their predictions.

quote: One other suggestion that I would like to throw into the group for discussion: predicting who goes through to the next round. Not just for the CL groups like we did this year, but for every match in the UEFA Cup and the Quarter and Semi Finals in the CL. So if Celtic plays Liverpool in the UEFA Cup, you would not only predict the scores of the home and away games (e.g. 2-1 and 1-3), but also who wins the aggregate score (e.g. Liverpool goes through), or possibly even what the exact aggregate score will be (e.g. 3-4 or 4-4, Liverpool goes through). You would have to submit this prediction at the same time as the prediction for the first match of course. One problem with this might be for Paul to manage this, as I see no easy way to implement this in Excel...

It should not be more difficult than what I already do with the group winners and CL winner and topscorer. If we do this we should probably also change the way we deal with the group stage of the CL. This year we predicted only the group winners, but if we implement this system we should predict the two teams that go to the next round from each group, perhaps with bonus points for correctly predicting which team will be the winner and which team will be second place.

But I'm not a big fan of predicting aggregate scores. We already predict the scores for the matches and I think this would be a bit too much.

	29-05-2003 20:28									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: I really like this idea. Of course, we would have to find some way to let me also make my predictions. I would suggest that I pm my prediction to one or more of the other people. We could use pm send tracking to make sure that I don't read other people's predictions before I make mine. Or we could have a neutral outsider who collects our predictions and posts them after the deadline.

I for one would be more than happy to help you out (that is, as long as I don't need to stay neutral -- I wanna play! )

	29-05-2003 20:32									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Paul: PM your prediction to one or more of the people in the prediction game who can't possibly win.

	30-05-2003 18:34									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have found next season's schedule on the UEFA site. The first qualifying round starts on 16-07-2003 and the draw is on 20-06-2003.

Now you can all start planning your summer vacations in such a way that they won't interfere with posting your predictions.

	31-05-2003 19:21									#58
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I would like to get some votes for the ideas that were already posted. I will post all the suggestions and then you can vote yes, no or abstain. You can also have a "yes, if..." vote. You can use that if you like an idea, but only if some change(s) were made to it. Here are the suggestions that were made so far:

1. Applies to: CL and UC final. Predictions for the final should be made in a private message so that we won't know each other's predictions.

2. Applies to: UC and knockout stages of CL. Before the first leg we predict which teams go to the next round

3. Applies to: CL group matches. Instead of predicting the group winner, we predict which two teams go to the next round.

4. Applies to: CL group matches. If suggestion 3 is accepted, we get bonus points for predicting which team finishes first and which team finishes second in the group.

5. Applies to: all matches. Zopperoni's "pool of points" suggestion. All the points that can be earned in a week are put in a pool and you can say how many points you want to bet on each match, with a minimum and maximum of points allowed per match.

You can still post other suggestions if you have any. I will count the votes for these 5 suggestions next weekend and then I will also see if there are any new suggestions.

	31-05-2003 19:23									#59
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My own votes:

1-4: yes
5: no

	31-05-2003 19:35									#60
	Suffering from ads?

1) Y
2) N
3) Y
4) N
5) Abstain