31-05-2003 21:23									#61
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my votes 1-4 yes, 5: no as it is a bit too complex even though the new dynamic would be interesting...

quote: Well, congrats, OFITG, a deserved win (even if you needed a little bit of help to get there )

thanks... well I am pretty sure that I couldn't get three correct scores in last three matches without a little help

	31-05-2003 21:49									#62
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1. Y
2. Abstain
3. Y
4. Y
5. N

OFITG,
Possibly with the exception of Paul, I'm pretty sure you got by far the most correct scores throughout the tournament. Even though a lot of luck is involved in predicting the exact score, that's an impressive feat

	31-05-2003 21:58									#63
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1. Y
2. N
3. Y
4. Y
5. N

	01-06-2003 00:03									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus OFITG, Possibly with the exception of Paul, I'm pretty sure you got by far the most correct scores throughout the tournament. Even though a lot of luck is involved in predicting the exact score, that's an impressive feat

I checked the spreadsheet and OFITG had 31 exact scores (13.1%). I had 28 (11.8%).

I had the most correctly predicted winners/draws: 126 (53.2%), followed by Wernazuma with 122 (51.7%). But OFITG did better in the end, when there were more points per match.

Locutus, you could also have won if you hadn't missed the second leg of the quarterfinals. You could probably have made up 5 points in those 4 matches. You are the only person in the top 4 who didn't post predictions for all 237 matches.

	01-06-2003 01:30									#65
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well, those last three did it, I was just hoping for a top 5 finish after the quater finals, but those last three matches, with by far the most points - got them all right - the last one thanks to Locutus

	01-06-2003 02:17									#66
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Paul,
I have been keeping track of my own predictions and in correct scores I wasn't doing too badly either (just you and OFITG ahead of me), but I don't think I got more than 25 right. 25 and 31 is a considerable gap...

Forgot all about those quarter finals: I had made the predictions beforehand but couldn't submit them because I couldn't reach 'poly for 4 or 5 days (I think in retrospect that that may have had to do with provider problems as well, as I don't think Apolyton was down for that long). I actually considered emailing my predictions to you but kind of figured I wouldn't be the only one unable to submit the predictions and sorta counted on some kind of provision being made for that...

Anyway, I would have gotten 15 points from those matches. So OFITG got a present from me twice Oh well, easy to talk like that in retrospect. Better luck next time...

	01-06-2003 02:36									#67
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My votes:

1) No
2) No
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) No, sorry Zopperoni Too complex for my tase...

	01-06-2003 11:39									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Forgot all about those quarter finals: I had made the predictions beforehand but couldn't submit them because I couldn't reach 'poly for 4 or 5 days (I think in retrospect that that may have had to do with provider problems as well, as I don't think Apolyton was down for that long). I actually considered emailing my predictions to you but kind of figured I wouldn't be the only one unable to submit the predictions and sorta counted on some kind of provision being made for that...

Before those quarter finals, Apolyton went down on Monday evening, around 24 hours before the matches. So everybody still had 4 days to post their predictions before that. Out of the top 10 only one other person didn't post predictions, and he had already stopped playing before the quarterfinals. As far as I'm concerned, this was a risk you take when you wait until the last day to post your predictions.

It would have been different if Apolyton had been down for a longer time before the matches and maybe we should make a rule for the next season. Let's say that Apolyton must be up for at least 72 consecutive hours between the time I post the thread and the start of the matches. I normally post my thread on Thursday, so that means that we will cancel predictions if Apolyton is down for more than 48 hours.

	02-06-2003 03:26									#69
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I vote yes for 1-4. no for the other (would take too long to post)

How about we get some points for every goal that our nominated top goal scorer scores (maybe variable by stage, so that a goal in the final is worth more than a goal against the Lithuanian champions in the qualifying rounds) the bonus points still going to anyone who nominated the top scorer.

I ran a World Cup competition at my work, and for "nominating the qualifying teams from each group" part, you got more points for nominating unseeded teams, to encourage people to try and spot outsiders instead of everyone picking Madrid, Man U etc (not to say that I got many points for prediciting in this comp!)

	06-06-2003 00:50									#70
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I've added the votes so far:

1: pm predictions for final
yes: 6
no: 1

2: predict which team goes to the next round
yes: 3
no: 3
abstain: 1

3: predict both teams that go through from groups
yes: 7
no: 0

4: if 3 is accepted: bonus points for predicting which team is first and which team is second in the group
yes: 6
no: 1

5: pool of points
yes: 0
no: 6
abstain: 1

Looks like 1,3,4 will be accepted and 5 will be rejected. Only 2 is still open. I'll probably start a vote on Fergus's suggestions in the weekend. Any comments on those suggestions and new suggestions are also appreciated.

	08-06-2003 22:46									#71
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I hereby close voting on all proposals except proposal 2. Proposal 2 is still undecided, so I'll give everybody some more time to vote.

Proposals 1, 3 and 4 are hereby accepted.

Voting is open on proposal 2 and Fergus' proposals:

2. Applies to: UC and knockout stages of CL. Before the first leg we predict which teams go to the next round. (Only vote for this if you had not yet voted or if you want to change your vote)

5. Applies to: CL. Bonus points for every goal scored by your predicted topscorer.

6. Applies to: CL group matches. You can get more points if you predict that an unseeded team goes to the next round.

I have also made a proposal for changes in the scoring system based on the accepted proposals. I suggest that we get 2 points for each team that goes to the second round, 2 bonus points for predicting the group winner and 1 bonus point for predicting which team finishes second.

The second round will now be played in a knock-out system, so there will not be points for group winners. I suggest that we keep 3 points per match and 3 bonus points for the exact score in the second round.

I suggest no other changes in the scoring system unless one or more of the proposals 2, 5 and 6 is accepted.

If you don't agree with my suggested scoring system, post here. If nobody posts an objection before next weekend, the scoring system for the group winners and second places will be accepted.

	08-06-2003 23:34									#72
	Put an end to popups!

5.No
6. Abstain

I'm fine with the scoring proposals, though, like last year, I have to add that the progressive scoring with more points in the end is exaggerated. One can make steadily good predictions but with a few exact hits of someone in the end-phase the whole scenery can change quickly. The progressive scoring favors chance. I wouldn't want to abolish it, but maybe it could be like this:

Quali rounds: 1p.+1
Group phase: 2p.+2
2nd round: 3p. +3
3rd round: 3p.+3
Quarters: 4p.+4
Semi: 4p.+4
Finals 5p.+5

Just a thought.

	09-06-2003 12:55									#73
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5 Yes
6 Yes

	09-06-2003 13:01									#74
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2 No
5 No
6 No

	12-06-2003 23:52									#75
	Put an end to popups!

I should not forget my own votes:
5 No
6 No

Wernazuma, if we make those changes to the CL, we should also make similar changes to the UEFA Cup predictions. And perhaps also less points for predicting the CL and UC winner and the CL topscorer. I don't know if you had already thought about that.

You also put a third round in your suggestion, but the quarter finals come after the second round, so there won't be a third round.

For those of you who don't know all the numbers, the current scoring systems for the CL and UC predictions are:

Champions League:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round groups: 2+2
Second round groups: 3+3
Quarter finals: 5+5
Semifinals: 7+7
Final: 10+10
CL winner: 25 (6 points if your predicted winner loses the final)
Topscorer: 10 (3 points if your predicted topscorer finishes second)

UEFA Cup:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round: 2+2
Second round: 2+2
Third round: 3+3
Fourth round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 5+5
Final: 7+7
UC winner: 10 (4 points if your predicted winner loses the final)

	13-06-2003 02:13									#76
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5 Yes
6 No

I agree that the current point system is unbalanced, but I kind of like it that way: keeps things interesting until the end...

	13-06-2003 02:34									#77
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5) N
6) N

	13-06-2003 02:54									#78
	Increase Your PM Length

6 - yes
5 - no

	15-06-2003 11:38									#79
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The results of the votes for proposals 5 and 6:

5: Bonus points for goals scored by tour proposed topscorer.
yes: 2
no: 5

6: Bonus points for predicting that unseeded teams go to the second round of the CL
yes: 2
no: 4
abstain: 1

That means that both proposals were rejected. And Mike's vote on proposal 2 means that that is also rejected. That means that it is now time to vote for the scoring system.

For the Champions League group matches I had already posted this: we get 2 points for each team that goes to the second round, 2 bonus points for predicting the group winner and 1 bonus point for predicting which team finishes second. Nobody has suggested an alternative for this, so this will be accepted unless someone posts a different proposal this week.

For the rest of the scoring system, we can either keep the current scoring system, or go with Wernazuma's proposal to make it a bit less progressive. If we accept Wernazuma's proposal we also have to make some changes to the UEFA Cup predictions and points for the CL and UC winners and the CL topscorer. I suggest the following scoring system based on Wernazuma's proposal:

Champions League:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round groups: 2+2
Second round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 4+4
Final: 5+5
CL winner: 15 (4 points if your predicted winner loses the final)
Topscorer: 6 (2 points if your predicted topscorer finishes second)

UEFA Cup:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round: 2+2
Second round: 2+2
Third round: 3+3
Fourth round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 4+4
Final: 5+5
UC winner: 8 (3 points if your predicted winner loses the final)

Wernazuma, I hope that you like this. If you don't like this, let me know what you would like to change. If I don't hear anything from you before Tuesday, we will start voting on this scoring system vs. the old scoring system that I posted a few posts up. If anybody has any other suggestions to change the scoring system, post them before Tuesday.

	15-06-2003 15:02									#80
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Yes Locutus, this seems to be quite what I intended to propose!

	17-06-2003 17:14									#81
	Put an end to popups!

It's time to start voting about the scoring system. We have a choice between two proposed systems:

1. Based on the old scoring system that was used this season:

Champions League:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round groups: 2+2
Second round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 5+5
Semifinals: 7+7
Final: 10+10
CL winner: 25 (6 points if your predicted winner loses the final)
Topscorer: 10 (3 points if your predicted topscorer finishes second)

UEFA Cup:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round: 2+2
Second round: 2+2
Third round: 3+3
Fourth round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 5+5
Final: 7+7
UC winner: 10 (4 points if your predicted winner loses the final)


2. Less progressive, based on Wernazuma's proposal:

Champions League:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round groups: 2+2
Second round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 4+4
Final: 5+5
CL winner: 15 (4 points if your predicted winner loses the final)
Topscorer: 6 (2 points if your predicted topscorer finishes second)

UEFA Cup:
Qualifying rounds: 1+1
First round: 2+2
Second round: 2+2
Third round: 3+3
Fourth round: 3+3
Quarter finals: 4+4
Semifinals: 4+4
Final: 5+5
UC winner: 8 (3 points if your predicted winner loses the final)


The scoring system for the teams that progress from the first round groups in the Champions League will be decided seperately; so far there have been no alternatives to my proposal earlier in this thread.

You will get one week to vote on the scoring systems. Next Tuesday I will post the final results. On Friday UEFA will perform the draw for the qualifying rounds. I will post a new thread during the weekend where you can post your predictions.

And my own vote for the scoring system: I vote for proposal 2.

	17-06-2003 17:22									#82
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I like the progressive scoring, it keeps the championship alive more. I know it's not as fair but I'm voting for fun.

Vote for proposal 1.

	17-06-2003 17:47									#83
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I am voting for 1 too, well I won this season because of it so it gives outsioders a chance too...

Last three correct scores I still can't believe it

Keeps the competition alive for longer... more fun that's all... and the best "predictor" gets the honorary title of being the person with most correct predictions for the whole game - at least we know who it is

	17-06-2003 18:48									#84
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The less progressive system is a lot fairer but it's not as if there's anything at stake here (except for bragging rights ) so I'd favour proposal 1 as well.

	17-06-2003 20:04									#85
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I shot up the rankings from #7 to nearly winning because of the scoring system, so my vote is for proposal 1.

	20-06-2003 15:54									#86
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It looks like proposal 1 is going to win.

UEFA has just performed the draw for the CL qualifying rounds. I have started a thread where you can post your predictions. You have almost three weeks to post your predictions, but I'm starting the thread early because some of you will probably go away for some time during the summer.

	24-06-2003 17:21									#87
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Proposal 1 won with 4-1 votes. I have posted the threads for the Champions League and UEFA Cup qualifying rounds.