23-05-2003 20:14									#1
	Vox becomes a builder civ? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OK. The war ain't gonna be a short one. And neither do I think we are going to be wiped out tomorrow. It will take some time for GoW and RP to amass sufficient forces to make a difference. Ditto for us. We need pikemen and knights.

GoW's plan to hold chivalry back from GS should gives us a window. We have a harbor in 5 turns after this. I will start pressuring NeuD for horses. We can use the same technique as Immortals. We build horsemen, and then upgrade to knights.

But - in the meantime - how about some more cities? South Estonia still has some nice sites. Both Harry and Kon have come up with reasonable plans we can dust off and take a look at. Elipolis and The Voice are good candidates for producing settlers. (Elipolis because as it grows, its choice of tiles to use gets limited.) I don't want to diminish Wittlich City or Miller Town's production capacity. Both are at 10 shields now which works well.

I also think there is still good potential to put a city north of the Voice - on the woods tile on the coast. Still lots of unused tiles up there - and corruption will be minimal. And if the Voice continues to produce settlers and the ocasional worker - it will not need all the tiles. It is our only granary city - we should optimize its use.

And - a library or two in key cities would boost our science output.

Maybe I will be a better builder than I was a war strategist... (if we had only attacked 15-20 turns sooner...)

There - a few of my thoughts. What do you think?

	24-05-2003 00:31									#2
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I think libraries in Miller Town and Wittlich is the way to go. Our cities will also need a temple to reach size 6 (unless we stay Depost/Monarchy and keep units in the cities). I would like to see those cities get big, especially Miller Town since it has the lake.

HH needs culture to use the whale.

Voice works as a settler/worker farm since it has both a granary and extra food from the cow. We should limit Voice to size 6 to get the best growth. Even if we do not need more cities the growth at Voice can be used to create workers to populate other cities and increase their growth rate.

At our current science rate we do not need libraries. In out 30 turns when we get Engineering I expect we will switch to Republic and the libraries will be needed to research at a decent rate.

	24-05-2003 00:33									#3
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I will be home tonight and maybe a little in the morning before I head out for a weekend of dog activities. I will return Monday evening. Sometime Wednesday I leave for a nearly two week vacation.

	24-05-2003 00:55									#4
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Since you make a valid point Beta - this was isn't going anywhere fast...I concur - let's try to squeeze as many cities as we can into our limited real estate.

	24-05-2003 01:25									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Besides, we can also build a "proper" city next to our iron colony.

	24-05-2003 02:31									#6
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I have reason to believe that within a maximum of 15 turns a large wave of GS Knights will relatively easily conquer Southern Estonia. I know that they intend to do it, and I'm pretty confident that they are also capable of it.

So i'm against building new cities in S. Estonia. Let's focus on walls in Elipolis and Diss. Ville and on lots of Spearmen that will be upgraded to pikes.

	24-05-2003 03:48									#7
	Got spare money?

Eli - what about GoW's plan to stiff them on the chivalry deal? They won't know they have been stiffed for a few turns yet - then they have to research it themselves - and then they have upgrading or building to do.

	26-05-2003 03:18									#8
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what I am worried about is that GS has used the defensive advantage to be able to build while we were not

as for building, it is a good tihng (you want to either be bui;lding or conqueroring)

maybe we should bulid up our northern cities instead of building more

Jon Miller
- from Oregon

	26-05-2003 04:22									#9
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Hello Jon Miller from Oregon. Are you any relation to the Jon Murrkt guy from Maryland?

The northern cities are growing as fast as they can. The worker is keeping up - so far - with needed improvements. And I have the other two heading north to help out.

I still think a city north of The Voice makes sense. We will still be using the Voice for awhile to produce settlers and the occasional worker. It will never come close to using all the tiles up there in the short to medium term. And corruption should be next to nil.

And I still like the idea of building south of Elipolis. We are not going to give the land away in any peace deal. We nay need to hold off a GS rush - but by then - GoW and RP should be here in force.

It is the cities south of Elipolis that are the question mark.

	26-05-2003 12:54									#10
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With Pikemen and without their Knights we have a good chance of stopping an invasion, but it's time to start considering the construction of fortifications.

It is also possible that after they see that they have no knights for a while and we have Pikes, they will be ready to sign a peace for peace deal instead of demanding land.

	28-05-2003 20:57									#11
	Put an end to popups!

I took at look at my city planning maps. A city near Voice on either of the two forest tiles that are two away could be done. The tile 2 SE is on the lake so it would have an advantage of being able to grow. That will only matter if this becomes a permanent city. The tile 2 NE has the advantage of being near the food producing tiles. It could use those tiles when Voice does not need them and produce workers and settlers. If a city at either location becomes a permanent city it would be mostly for commerce using the coast and sea tiles. Any land tiles it uses as a permanent city takes production away from Voice or Miller Town. I like the tile 2 NE better. It could build a granary and harbor and take over the settler/worker production from Voice allowing Voice to concentrate on veteran units (now that it has a barracks) and city improvements (e.g., library, cathedral). With a harbor it can take full advantage of the fish tile and use some of the coast tiles with just a few land tiles to provide some production.

I also did a corruption test for a city located S of Elipolis on the jungle tile NE of the mountain. Here are the corruption results (values are waste/net):

This city site is doable and a courthouse would help it.

My suggestion is to go first for the city 2 NE of voice and then found the city S of Elipolis (provided we don't give that land away to GS).

See ya in two weeks. Have fun.

	29-05-2003 03:52									#12
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Harry. Outstanding. Thank-you. Thank-you.

	29-05-2003 08:43									#13
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Sorry for the long hiatus, but its has been busy we are getting ready to move, but I think it is a good idea to start up a building project

	29-05-2003 10:50									#14
	Got spare money?

looks good to me

	29-05-2003 15:54									#15
	Remove this text

looks nice to me!