24-05-2003 19:30									#1
	H'wacha's can't kill! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It says in the help that the Korean H'wacha unit can kill off a unit completely, unlike other artillery units. Having played about 10 games on diety with the Koreans, I've finally reached the H'wacha stage. They're good, but they can't kill units as promised Is this a bug in the game or in the help?

	24-05-2003 19:53									#2
	Remove this text

I'd say "bug in the help".

The Hwacha can't kill since the beginning of PtW, and Firaxis has never fixed it in any of the several patches (3 so far, and one is in preparation).

I strongly advise you to edit the default rules and change it. It makes the Hwach much more useful, though not overpowering.

	24-05-2003 20:24									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

I think it was done for balance

Hwach'a has a TON of power

It should have no trouble damaging Musketmen

	24-05-2003 20:53									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yeah, it has no problem damaging units, even Infantry, but I thought it could kill. I see your point though, it would probably be too powerful. So I assume it's an error in the help file?

	24-05-2003 21:02									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DP

	24-05-2003 21:06									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Originally, it was going to be able to kill, but according to Firaxis, it was too unbalancing. So, they removed the lethal component.

Just remember: If you do mod it, your games won't show up in your Hall of Fame. That bothers some people, but doeesn't bother others.

	24-05-2003 21:15									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's ok, I was just a bit disappointed at first. I've played about 10 games on diety, just to get to this point, and I'd built up an army of 30 H'wacha's. Still, they're very good, even against Infantry they hit 75% of the time. I agree that they'd be far too powerful if they were lethal.

	25-05-2003 04:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

so it is impossible to enter a golden age by your uu having a victorious battle? that's kind of a big disadvantage.

	25-05-2003 05:12									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh yeah, I never thought of that. I was looking forward to an industrial golden age, but obviously it never happened, and on diety level, you've got no hope of triggering it with a wonder. So yes, the Koreans suck

	25-05-2003 07:56									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

They could make it kill but make it weaker.

This way, it is still unique.

	25-05-2003 18:07									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

On Deity, isn't there at least some chance of conquering wonders with appropriate traits and then rushing a wonder with a leader? (Conquered wonders can help trigger GAs, but you have to build a wonder yourself to trigger the "does the player have suitable wonders to trigger a GA?" check.)

	25-05-2003 18:38									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Or they could just make patch, which makes that if you damage units with bombard UU, you trigger a golden age.

	25-05-2003 18:39									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah, it's possible I guess, but it's still a bit of a push. I'd prefer it if the H'wacha was made weaker - 8 attack like the cannon it replaces - but had the lethal ability. That would make it a good special unit, and able to trigger the GA, but not too powerful.

	25-05-2003 18:51									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Farflame, that's an interesting option. It might work, but it could still be unbalancing. Why? Because bombard units are at no risk of dying when they attack. If they were deadly and 8, I'd just build 1.5 times as many for my Stack-O-H'wacha-Doom and proceed to wipe out city after city with no risk.

	26-05-2003 14:47									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You're right, lethal combat would be too unbalancing.

For the h'wacha to trigger a GA you have to tweak the game so that it would be enough for a h'wacha to injure a unit or bring it down to 1 hp.

Lethal bombardment could maybe work if the last hp were made 4 times as strong vs bombardment as the other hp.

	26-05-2003 17:49									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by player1 Or they could just make patch, which makes that if you damage units with bombard UU, you trigger a golden age.

I'll vote for this one (also for F15, Man o War), but IMO even better, give these three units lethal bombardment possibility of let's say 25%. Everybody agrees F15 and Man o War are quite unuseful, doing this will make them more appreciated.

AJ