25-05-2003 00:41									#1
	Do any of the religious types around here have and explanation for this? Tired of ads?

from R.K. Milholland's 'Something Positive'.

	25-05-2003 01:15									#2
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"Inane ass-babble?" Gonna have to remember that one.

	26-05-2003 18:22									#3
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With respect to D&D in particular?

All I can say is the usual, all things in moderation.

As for the D&D suicide, I've never heard anything along those lines.

	27-05-2003 21:53									#4
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Well, I don't know that "religious types" is a sufficiently specific appeal. I don't think there are any devout muslims on this site, but if there are they probably have no comment...
With that aside, what do you want a response to? My personal opinion on Dungeons and Dragons is that it's distinctly lame to roll dice and pretend you're actually an elf-wizard fighting a dragon. That's about it. I don't know the specific rules of D&D, but from what I can tell they just use references to Demon Summoning or what-have-you because it sounds cool to the adolescent cliques who follow the phenomenon. Such references in the grab-bag spirit are harmless and do not imply satanism any more than our use of the word "avatar" implies belief in Vishnu.
As for the weird denial, I'd guess the minister is just a little jumpy from the continuous receipt of hate-mail, and threw out reflexive stonewalls just to get the writer off his back. You can't run a site or article or whatever expressing strong opinions of any kind without getting several flames in the mailbox. Then again, I don't know the parties concerned so I'm just talking out my rear.

	27-05-2003 22:28									#5
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Religious nutballs have been crusading against role playing games for thirty years. Apparently these idiots believe that RPGs are like a drug which will brain wash poor little children into commiting evil stanic things and cause them to kill themselves.

Personally, I'd say it isn't the kids who are having trouble decerning reality.

	27-05-2003 22:34									#6
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What are you asking relgious folk to explain, exactly? Seems rather vague.

The D&D suicide story seems pretty aprocryphal to me, though I suppose it is possible. But considering that out of the tens of millions who play the game all the time, if only one person throughout its 25-year history has killed himself, I'd say that doesn't speak well to arguments against it.

If you want real comedy, read the Jack Chick religious comic on D&D--it's a hoot!

	27-05-2003 22:36									#7
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My take is that if you commit suicide, there was already something seriously wrong with you.

I'm open to any accusations against RPGs, but I would really like to see some kind of proof first, which our anti-RPG friends here seem to be lacking.

As a long time player of D&D, I'm not aware of any RPG linked depression, suicide, delusions, or even anybody taking the game seriously into real life. On the contrary, I've found it builds creative imagination and problem solving skills. That might be just my bias, but I certainly have seen no evidence that it is harmful.

	27-05-2003 22:37									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov If you want real comedy, read the Jack Chick religious comic on D&D--it's a hoot!

That's a good one. Crazy.

	27-05-2003 22:48									#9
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Ah yes, Jack Chick...the number one enemy of Christian missionaries everywhere. I've never read the D&D one. I did like the one where the bully steals the kid's Chick comics, reads them, and converts. Very realistic. I've also read and liked/vomited at:
-"Trust Me," which shows us that drugs are wrong because you get caught in a federal sting and wind up catching AIDS from a burly sodomite you're roomed with in jail. Also, it teaches us that inner-city kids wave guns and knives out of the schoolbus window.
-"The Traitor." Based On A True Story...apparently he took "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" too seriously. Indian priest turns his back on the human-sacrifice cult of Kali, is tortured by demons as a consequence, but is finally saved by the nice Christian missionary. The Missionary explains that he comes from a very special god with only two arms and one head, that all the Hindu gods are just demons from hell, and that the priest shouldn't thank him, he's just taking up the white man's burden. Or maybe that last part was just implied.
I think I can safely say that Jack Chick does not represent the views of myself, Obi-wan, or just about any other Christian on this site. At least, I hope not. I know nobody said they did; just wanted to make it clear.

	27-05-2003 22:53									#10
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actually jack chick is my personal hero

	27-05-2003 22:54									#11
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Chick is a pretty obvious Nazi, when one thinks about it. Notice that his Christian protagonists are always Aryan whites who are very attractive. His tracts would give Hitler a woody.

	27-05-2003 22:58									#12
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I looked up a few of the comics on the internet. They seems really boring. Where are the funny ones? I mean I can only take so much of the "I commited suicide and now I will burn in hell forever" type BS.

	27-05-2003 23:03									#13
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the dungeons and dragons one is a hilarious

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046%5F01.asp

obviously the DM is the worst DM ever!

i think chick could have just called people who play D&D losers and got his message through, rather than trying to associate it with the occult and thus making it cool.

now the idea of a daughter using a mind control spell so her father could buy her 200 dollars worth of more D&D crap...thats aiming low.

	27-05-2003 23:07									#14
	Tired of ads?

Why does religion make people believe this sort of trash? Are they lobotomized? BTW you where right that D&D was funny.

	27-05-2003 23:10									#15
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to accept religion as fact you have to turn off the part of your brain that accepts reality.

	27-05-2003 23:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 now the idea of a daughter using a mind control spell so her father could buy her 200 dollars worth of more D&D crap...thats aiming low.

It seems like he is actually legitimizing the occult... if I were preaching against occult stuff, I would certainly not give examples of how it worked. I thought the whole point was that it was false...

quote: Are they lobotomized?

A nutcase is a nutcase, whether they are religious, atheist, liberal, conservative... the guy is crazy and that's no fault of religion. Doubtless, if brought up beleiving in some other cause he'd be writing tracts about something else.

	27-05-2003 23:17									#17
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There was a quite bizarre murder in Sweden a year ago or so linked to roleplaying. I'm not sure if they ever found a real, solid connection between the two things. Besides that both the killer and the victim played the game. It was some kind of live vampire roleplay, not the good old game with a couple of dices. It's was both amusing and at the same time somewhat distrubing to read what journalists that didn't have a clue about it wrote about it, both in the tabloids and more 'serious' papers.

In my book, religion has so far been a source for so much more wrongdoing that roleplaying can ever cause even if there would be some kind of link between roleplay and violence. Something I seriously doubt. Obviously, religious people that doesn't even know what they are talking about would never take that into consideration.

	27-05-2003 23:18									#18
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i love how he gets history mixed up with relation to catholics

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023_01.asp

aparently the pentecostals and southern baptists were around in 400 b.c. and are the true church. nevermind the fact that protestantism came from catholicism and that before the reformation there was practicly no other christian denomination other than catholicism.

edit: note the angry jesus ruling from heaven. pure comedy gold!

	27-05-2003 23:19									#19
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What about the orthodox church?

	27-05-2003 23:21									#20
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well besides the orthodox church, but i was assuming her never heard of it. and considering that he solely demonizes the catholic church...i dont think it really matters.

	27-05-2003 23:23									#21
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Orthodoxy, Copts, Marionites, and several orther eastern subgroups existed. I believe there was even a small group of christians in China though I can't remember their name right now.

	27-05-2003 23:29									#22
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As a side note, I myself roleplayed for several years, both as a DM and a regular player. And I was NEVER invited to join any form of occult group. I'm really dissapointed.

	27-05-2003 23:43									#23
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Oerdin:
Try "Boo!," on the same site. It's even worse. Or "The Traitor" or "Trust Me," like I said. I can't remember the title of the one with the bully. Also "The Holocaust," which explains how the pope was responsible for it all, and there's a big catholic conspiracy to conquer america and apple pie and replace it with wicked idol worship and blah blah blah.
It's not religion in general that makes you that crazy. It's just chick's peculiar blend of hyper-right-wing paranoid pseudo-gospel televangelist rant. I think it's the natural fusion of the cynicism of the baby boomers and the comparatively normal zealousness of Billy Sunday back in the thirties.
MRT: I said much the same thing about pro-choicers. I only got kvetched at. Learn from my mistakes; generalized insults just make the people you mock think you're an ***hole. Come on now.

	27-05-2003 23:43									#24
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Someone else reads Something Positive! w00t!

	27-05-2003 23:43									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i love how he gets history mixed up with relation to catholics http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5023/5023_01.asp aparently the pentecostals and southern baptists were around in 400 b.c. and are the true church. nevermind the fact that protestantism came from catholicism and that before the reformation there was practicly no other christian denomination other than catholicism. edit: note the angry jesus ruling from heaven. pure comedy gold!

Actually, Satan going "I got it!" is the true bit of comic masterwork in that one!

I suggest Chick read "A History of Religious Ideas" so he learns what absolute bunk his theory on Semaris is.

	27-05-2003 23:48									#26
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http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1710/1710_01.asp

the way in which he portrays native americans is hilariously intolerable

edan: i am an *******. but im a christian ******* and thats good enough for god.

	27-05-2003 23:52									#27
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The ancient Chinese Christians were called Nestorians. They were a tiny minority but still interesting to read about. Here is a link.

	28-05-2003 17:18									#28
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Well, these claims that kids might be learning about the "real occult" have been scientifically tested...

Spellcasting 101: Don't Try This At Home

	28-05-2003 18:27									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless Well, these claims that kids might be learning about the "real occult" have been scientifically tested... Spellcasting 101: Don't Try This At Home

ROTFL

	28-05-2003 18:35									#30
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BTW, Jack Chick seems to spew the same perverse rhetoric I've heard time and time again from misinformed "Catholic bashers." This is the first time that I've read his "comics" but he's showing the wisdom that only a misinformed, mental patient would possess.