25-05-2003 07:38									#1
	Limited Otttoman War Got spare money?

Ok - I recommend we use the settler to build SE of the iron (keyboard 3), and SW (1) of the cow. This will get us the iron we need. The city will also be within 3 tiles of Warriors Luck and Bergen. We archer rush Aydin - which will connect nicely to the rest of the cities - negotiate peace - see what we can get from the Ottomons. And then turn our sights east or north.

Edrine is a long way from the capitol, and subject to counter-attack from a number of directions. It may also be subject to a cultural flip. I say take Aydin - call it a day - and concentrate on one of our other neighbors.

Northward might be the the best bet - as someone else has suggested - to prune back the Iroquois before mounted warriors start coming in large quantities.

Any thoughts?

	25-05-2003 10:27									#2
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I don't know. I think that the Ottomans are close enough to be a thorn in our side if we don't get rid of them now...

	25-05-2003 20:02									#3
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hi ,

sounds good

just a though , why not settle right in ottomans land with a second settler , ....

have a nice day

	27-05-2003 20:55									#4
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Ottomans' UU comes after ours; Irq UU comes before ours, so the Irq are the biggest immedate threat.

As the Vickies though, we don't particularly need Iron right away, and road connecting an Iron source too early can result in it moving far away right before it's needed.

	29-05-2003 06:22									#5
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OK - as my last days as a regular senator may be nearing - I want to make a push again for a limited campaign, if any, against the Ottomans. My rationale:

We can get the iron with our next city without having to conquer any Ottoman cities.

Aydin as a one-off would make the border look good. And we could then get something out of the peace negotiations.

Granted - the Ottoman land is better - but the issue right now is weakening our neighbours. And the Iroquois worry me the most. As Joncnunn has indicated - they are the immediate threat - and IMHO should be pruned before we collect land from the Ottomans.

The civs to the east we can defend fairly well against - it is the north which is a concern.

Any thoughts?

	29-05-2003 07:31									#6
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You definitely have a point... on/off war with the Ottos might gain us more than a lot of conquest, especially until we're out of despotism. Targetting Aydin and Edrine only (Edrine is a cultural threat, so I think we need to at least raze it even if we can't take it) might be the way to go.

I'm not so sure about the Iroquois. Looking at the map, we could be in a vaguely O-shaped continent, with us, the Ottos, and the Iroquois on the left side (and Zulus on the bottom quarter), in which case the Iroquois will have quite a lot of room for expansion. Yes, there is a danger they'll come after us, but it's only possible; if we go after them, the only thing it'll take for us to face Mounted Warriors is for the Iroquois to hook up Iron.

If we DO want to go after the Iroquois, I suggest we buy their territory map ASAP so we can see if they have horses in their cultural borders or not.

	29-05-2003 16:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep If we DO want to go after the Iroquois, I suggest we buy their territory map ASAP so we can see if they have horses in their cultural borders or not.

Yes - good point. This would be the way to do it.

	29-05-2003 18:00									#8
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I fell we should at thsi time take the ottomans for all we can get. Let teh Iroc grow up north, as most of that land is so far away from us and appears to be tundra like. The Zulu are to our immediate east, adn it might not be a bad idea to attack them shortly, triger their GA and make peace shortly thereafter. Then, when we are ready to take them on for sure, we will not have to fight them in a GA. Also, the Zulu appear to be compeating with the celts, and who knows which one will prevail in that situation without knowing who has what (no maps yet). Just my ideas.

GK

	29-05-2003 20:24									#9
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On trigguring the Zulu's GA; no need for that, the Zulu will probably declare war on the Celts and trigure their GA shortly afterwords soon enough without our interference.

	03-06-2003 03:35									#10
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Okay, let's continue this discussion.

I think building that iron city should be the first priority. We get iron (swords), and possibly take the Ottos only source of it (can't see any others so far). That site is a great launch point for a new offensive, but only if the war goes beyond Erdine, as it is vulnerable to counter-attack. Aydin would be a simple acquisition, but is it worth starting a war just for that one city?

Yes, we need to know asap if the Iroq have horses. If they do, they become our top priority after the iron city. Change queues to Swords, upgrade our warriors and march north.

I'm not concerned with the east at the moment, other than to point out that settling the forest west of the river would be a good defensive settlement for us.

	03-06-2003 04:36									#11
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Okay, let's continue this discussion. I think building that iron city should be the first priority. We get iron (swords), and possibly take the Ottos only source of it (can't see any others so far). That site is a great launch point for a new offensive, but only if the war goes beyond Erdine, as it is vulnerable to counter-attack. Aydin would be a simple acquisition, but is it worth starting a war just for that one city? Yes, we need to know asap if the Iroq have horses. If they do, they become our top priority after the iron city. Change queues to Swords, upgrade our warriors and march north. I'm not concerned with the east at the moment, other than to point out that settling the forest west of the river would be a good defensive settlement for us.

here here !

	03-06-2003 04:52									#12
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I will add to my 'here here'. I was just revisiting the save to do my DM chores (a little gardening, a little sweeping, clean up those beer steins...) and I am even more sold on the limited Ottman war plan. We lay down a city to get the iron and that food tile - and that is it. As dejon has suggested - switch over to swordsmen production - and get set to head north. The Iroquois will be the early challenge. Let's hit them before they hit us.

As to the east - two more cities - one on the forest tile just east of the mountains - but our side of the river (6-6-3 from Asgard) and the previously discussed city on the coast by the river mouth (3-3-2 from Asgard.) They would effectively seal off the land to the east - and give us time to deal with our neighbors to the west and north. Then the western end of the continent is effectively ours.

	03-06-2003 05:20									#13
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I think I'm going to enjoy working with the new DM! Term II is the Toronto term! Maybe we should schedule a C3DGII planning meeting at a pub somewhere between the two of us!

Okay, c'mon people, let's see some more input & suggestions! It's your game too!

	04-06-2003 04:24									#14
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Good Plan.......Just saying i'm back

	04-06-2003 06:35									#15
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Just my thoughts (my first post here as a player)
-Based on my observations of the post turn 8 save.

The iron plan thing sounds good to me. I think mant of us agree on that.

There's another settler popping out in one turn and I'm thinking we have 2 nice spots to settle.

East of the mountains, west of Augustodorum, and partially covered by fog. Looks like prime real estate . A river nearby is good for irrigatiron later on, or we could settle right next to the river that runs parallel to the mountains. Anyone name that river yet? If not, I'd propose the River Dexter. Don't ask my why. heheh.

Although Getting a road accross is a problem and the city east of the natural mountain border could be a liability if we get into a war.

But it is tempting to me. Given our capital is off center, that entire strip of land East of the mountains is good land and could be big shield cities later on with low corruption. We could probably force at least 2 to 3 cities there and maybe take out the Ottoman city with the horse resource.

2nd spot is to settle on the hills overlookig that lonely wheat tile. We should settle on the hill further away from Aydin, so that we can push back Edrine's borders. If we pull it off, the iron city + the 2nd city by the hills should cut off Adyin from the rest of the body and we can surround it and take it later on.

This may be a bit of a gamble given the Ottomans may crank out those libraries later or and force a flip. If we go to war and give them a good knocking though, then, that worry may be moot.

Ideally, we grab all 3 spots asap, with iron being first priority and settling on both sides of the captial as secondary priority. After that, it looks pretty much like or borders are nearly set now. Maybe a slight bush northward into the mountains to block the Iroquois

Last edited by dexters on 04-06-2003 at 06:56

	04-06-2003 06:49									#16
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Good input, dexters.

I'll be posting Turnchat #9 SMC orders sometime in the next couple of days. We are preparing to attack the Ottomans at Erdine, and Aydin if necessary (might get as peace payment). As part of the attack plan we will be settling that Iron city.

The other settler is indeed headed for the forest tile inside the eastern river but outside the mountains. BetaHound (DM) had a suggestion for a third city over there as well.

Watch for both of our orders to provide feedback prior to Saturday's chat.

	05-06-2003 10:04									#17
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Well, I have been away for some time now, and will be away for two more weeks in a couple of days, but until then....

I am concerned about all this talk of hooking up the iron and changing our build queues to Swordmen. Yes, building the Iron city is indeed a very good idea, and I would even say hooking up the iron is a good idea also, but not until we are ready. If you want to go after the Iriquios, then change most of our builds to Warriors (not all, leave at least one city building Archers. ALWAYS be building Archers somewhere) then connect the iron for one turn only to upgrade the warriors. The following turn, pillage the road to prevent it from moving. The next time to connect it is for Pikemen. My main concern is not building Archers. Archers are our life bread. We die without Archers. 50 gold to upgrade a 2/1/1 20 shield Archer to a 6/2/1 70 shield Amphibious Bezerker. This is how we are going to win the game. Bezerkers are going to be used into the industrial age.

Archer! Archer! Archer! Archer! Archer! Archer! (you get the picture)

	05-06-2003 10:42									#18
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Thanks donegeal- we need to keep in mind that Archers will help us lots in the future. BUT, unless we are going to use them for the Ottoman war, we can wait. Invention is a LONG wayoff, and we can build Archers all the way up to there. Building warriors seems like a good idea when we are close to getting the Iron hooked up. We don't want lotsa warriors built when the Ottos (or someone else) steals that Iron from us somehow.

As for pillaging the road after upgrading all the Warriors - that may be too much trouble for when we need to reconnect it again, unless we really have an overwhelming force, and we can either do without Iron for a bit or we are confident we have the workers in place to reconnect on short notice.

	06-06-2003 02:46									#19
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I think building warriors now for upgrade is the way to go. BTW do we know if the ironquios have horses? The sooner we hit them the better as they have expanded alot and so have lots of cities to sue for.

	11-06-2003 07:51									#20
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So, given the events of the recnt chat, who cam up with the dumb idea for this thread anyway?

	11-06-2003 10:36									#21
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I can quietly lock and erase it from history if you'd like...

Then no-one (else) need ever know...