30-05-2003 09:37									#61
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker WHAT?! When did they unify EM and gravity?

General Relativity unifed EM and gravity. Quantum Physics unified EM. the weak force, and the strong force. The tricky part is to unify all four.

quote: Originally posted by skywalker I know supersymmetry is supposed to do so, but they can't really know until they work out a quantum theory of gravity.

Well that's sort of like the Theory of Everything physicists are seeking.

	30-05-2003 09:41									#62
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- - insert obligatory "I see dead people" post here - -

	30-05-2003 11:57									#63
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Isn't it logically impossible to disprove something? I figured out the logic to this once

Probably you're referring to Popper's epistemology:
According to Popper there is no valid inductive logic, since general statements can never be proved from particular instances and, on the other hand, a general statement can be disproved by one contrary particular instance.
In other words it says that because we can only ever get a limited amount of empirical data, we can never be sure that our empirical data confirms our theories to be true.
So, even if we visited 100.000.000 Haunted houses and found no-ghost in them but just some natural effect we can't assume that ghosts doesn't exist.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger They made this "Chromodynamic Theory" (IIRC) which unified EM and the weak force. Of course it doesn't mean EM is the same as the weak force.

What do you mean? even Maxwell's electromagnetism is a "theory" so, from your point of view, it doesn't mean that electrical force is the same as magnetic force.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Just like GR unified EM and gravity, but it doesn't mean EM is the same as gravity.

GR?
Are you talking about Einstein's General Relativity? it didn't unify EM and gravity, that's for sure.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Well that's sort of like the Theory of Everything physicists are seeking.

Physicists seeked also perpetuum mobiles...
It doesn't mean such a theory exists

	30-05-2003 12:21									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Angelo Scotto What do you mean? even Maxwell's electromagnetism is a "theory" so, from your point of view, it doesn't mean that electrical force is the same as magnetic force.

When did I say electric force is the same as magnetic force?

quote: Originally posted by Angelo Scotto GR? Are you talking about Einstein's General Relativity? it didn't unify EM and gravity, that's for sure.

Okay. Suppose it didn't do such unification. What did it do?

quote: Originally posted by Angelo Scotto Physicists seeked also perpetuum mobiles... It doesn't mean such a theory exists

Physicists had never sought perpetual motion machines AFAIK.

	30-05-2003 13:17									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger When did I say electric force is the same as magnetic force?

Oooh, this explains a lot of things

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Okay. Suppose it didn't do such unification. What did it do?

Well, there's a lot of people who is still trying to figure out...
Seriously, i thought that GR was a generalization of special relativity aimed to give us a better model for gravity based on curved spacetime (whatever this means , remember the disclaimer "i'm not an expert") but it don't say anything about EM and gravity unification.
And without a correct quantum theory of gravity (like skywalker said), this is impossible since the point is that gravity refuses to be quantised as other forces.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Physicists had never sought perpetual motion machines AFAIK.

Well, AFAIK the two principles of the thermodynamics were "discovered" while trying to give a definitive answer to the perpetuum mobile problem; physicists such as Bernoulli said that a similar engine could be built.
Anyway it was intended as a joke, the point was to underline that seeking a theory doesn't mean that such a theory exists; at extreme one could say that actually a Theory of Everything is like a Theory of Ghosts

	30-05-2003 13:46									#66
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quote: A good many people claim to have witnessed glowing spheres, sometimes more than one, in places said to be haunted. There have also been a lot of photographs captured of these spirit whatever thingies, though any photograph's authenticity is immediately suspect.

These are easily explained by refraction of light within the camera. This is also the typical explanation for similar "blob of light" UFO photographs, as well as photos of "rods" (don't ask). You can usually see the original source of light in the photo, and plot the refraction.

A similar effect occurs when there is a point of light in a darkened room, which can leave an unusual colored "squiggle" on the photo (due to movements of photographer's hands).

People think a camera is some sort of magical device that absolutely captures a perfect image of whatever they point it at. A camera is a physical device with physical limitations.

	30-05-2003 15:38									#67
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quote: Seriously, i thought that GR was a generalization of special relativity aimed to give us a better model for gravity based on curved spacetime.

Sort of, but a better explanation is that General Relativity better explains the fringes of Newtonian mechanics, where high densities warp space, and the normal rules of gravity do not apply.

So it would be a better gravitational theory, but only a gravitational theory. I think what UR got mixed up is how General Relativity can explain how the path of light can be affected by this curvature of space.

	30-05-2003 22:02									#68
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Actually, UR, speaking as a Christian I would say I believe humans are the ones not bound by logic. Human actions are determined by a variety of forces, such as emotion, booze, spite, the munchies, general horniness, force of habit, catchy music and fashionable ideology. Logic is lower down on the list according to Elok. Just giving my two cents.
Yeah, I'm bleak.

	31-05-2003 00:17									#69
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Elok

	31-05-2003 09:52									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Actually, UR, speaking as a Christian I would say I believe humans are the ones not bound by logic. Human actions are determined by a variety of forces, such as emotion, booze, spite, the munchies, general horniness, force of habit, catchy music and fashionable ideology. Logic is lower down on the list according to Elok. Just giving my two cents. Yeah, I'm bleak.

You meant human actions are not always rational.

For example:

1. When Elok is really angry, he kills people
2. Elok is really angry
3. Elok kills people

No, killing people is not rational, but it could be logical in the sense of being predictable and consistent.