02-06-2003 21:52									#31
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I'm back and have d/l'd the SG(2) save.
20 turns, right?

	03-06-2003 05:25									#32
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette I could be player #8. Tell me whether it's OK.

It's OK! adds La Fayette

@Jrabbit - yes... 20 turns, or less if you get bored. In fact, this game will remain 20 turns all the way through the first round, for the sake of fairness.

Play list updated...

1. atomant
2. Jrabbit
3. OldnSlow
4. SG(2)
5. STYOM
6. Bob_Smurf42
7. SCG
8. La Fayette
9. Zedd
10. ?

	03-06-2003 08:18									#33
	A couple of thoughts... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I was thinking about rehoming NON settlers. This might be a good idea, because it would allow us to get more nomads, potentially, while still letting us collect 2 or 3 (or more) for roadbuilding puposes.

On the other hand... there's really no way to tell if a settler with a home city of, say, Rhodes, was rehomed or was built

Naturally none of us would cheat, except by accident, which has happened in some succession games I know of So I'll tentatively say that rehoming nomads is OK.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought on how many turns to play in succesion games. On the one hand... the first 2 or 3 players have little to do except worker management and moving a couple of units, so it makes sense that they play 20 turns, or they'd barely be playing at all. But by the time we've been through the playlist once, that's 160 turns with 8 players, or about half the game Naturally, we all want to play more than once or twice... so in most games the turncount is reduced to 12 or 10, and then later to 8 or 5, even. The downside of that is that the first person playing the reduced number of turns feels slighted.

In any event, I'm erring on the side of letting people play more turns, instead of less. It's more fun to develop a long term plan than a short term one. So we'll keep playing 20 turns, until we meet our first AI, when we'll drop to 15. 15 should be plenty for most purposes... and will ensure that everyone gets to play at least twice, I think.

Also... another rule (even though this was supposed to be simple ). A player's turn ends when he eliminates an AI civ. This way we all get in on the mayhem

Looking at the map... lots of good city sites along the NW coast... fish & whales, fish and spice... mmmmm

	03-06-2003 13:10									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For obvious reasons I've never rehomed a NON settler. Are we sure that rehoming would produce the desired effect? Once the game has recorded a nomad on a continent the change in support may not alter the flag counting the NON.

Once overseas exploration is possible it might be better to ship some nomads back home.

------------------------------

SG(2)

	03-06-2003 17:55									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits For obvious reasons I've never rehomed a NON settler. Are we sure that rehoming would produce the desired effect? Once the game has recorded a nomad on a continent the change in support may not alter the flag counting the NON. Once overseas exploration is possible it might be better to ship some nomads back home. ------------------------------ SG(2)

Well, I've never tested it but I would think the game checks to see if you have any local NON settlers and then readjusts the hut result probabilities (?). I don't see why rehoming the settler wouldn't have the same effect as building a city with him - but, I probably need to consult solo's hut thread, again.

You're right, it may not work. Someone should test that, someday

And yes, a trireme with a diplomat on it could gather a couple of Settlers for us That's why I'm in favour of getting MM and LH.

	03-06-2003 18:08									#36
	...and thine enemy shall be boredom. Inflate your Upload Space

It's 1050 BC and King Bun gives his empire the once-over. Hmm. 5 cities, little science. And how did Romulus & Remus get out to the barren 'burbs? Oh well, not much to do but press Enter...

1000 BC -- some moving about of exploratory units.
975 -- Indians start work on Colossal statue.
950 -- Zulus, too. Cul de Sac builds Warrior.
925 -- Polar hut spotted. Diplomats now being built in all 5 cities.
900 -- Hut contains scroll of ancient Horeseback Riding. Research now at 14 turns.
875 -- Southern explorer finds hut containing.Polytheism. Small barb force appears nearby.
850 -- French move capital to Orleans. We tweak research down to 11 turns.
825 -- Barb horse destroyed, but the oh-so-accessible king vanishes into thin air.
800 -- Rhodes produces diplomat. We note that it has a decidedly unsuburban name. French reportedly start work on bizarre Pyramidal structures of unknown use.
775 -- Two more southern huts spotted!. One yields the advanced tribe of Coventry! Indians start Pyramids, move capital to Bombay.
750 -- Population soars to 200,000. Hut yields scroll of Bronze Working!
725 -- Chinese move capital to Shanghai.
700 -- Intimidated by Indians, French abandon Pyramids.
675 -- Our "wise" men finally learn secret of Map Making!!!! Begin study of Pottery.
650 -- French change their minds, start Pyramids again. We launch our first trireme.
625 -- Our mighty capital produces a diplomat, starts work on Lighthouse.
600 -- We launch another trireme.
575 -- More capitals on the move -- French to Lyons, Chinese to Beijing.
550 -- Rhodes builds barracks, starts on vet elephant.

King Bun decides to turn over the reigns before he falls asleep.

Quick notes -- One of the polar explorers has found a nice, fresh continent, and our Triremes have already found some landmasses of interest. I urge my successor to use diplomats for exploration.

I started the Lighthouse, and think that might be the right call. Happiness problems don't get serious until 12 cities, and HG may well expire before we get to that. OTOH, the lack of settlers may be a good argument for Pyramids...

The tricky bit here will be balancing the cost of white goods (virtually no income) vs. the cost of units (shield-starved, too!). I'm proposing a massive diplomatic corps as a solution (at least until we develop Trade).

I'm pretty sure the next player will encounter at least one other civ. (At least then we'll be able to check the Foreign Advisor screen...)

Hoping this will be a bit more ennui-free for our next contestant...

Attachment: ro_550b.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	03-06-2003 18:14									#37
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Jrabbit Took a quick look at the log on my way out the door... will d/l and play tonight/tomorrow.

	03-06-2003 18:18									#38
	musing... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The most frustrating thing about this game will be the lack of control over quantity and location of our city sites. We can't repair poor positioning of advanced tribes, and settlers will be so rare that, when we actually get one, we'll need to commit them to building roads and irrigation before even contemplating a city build.

We're all used to maximizing our position through clever city positioning, early roads/trade, and the like. Amazing how this "simple" set of rules changes the basic nature of that approach...

	03-06-2003 18:21									#39
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BTW, atomant -- I'm still several rounds from breaking 90 for the first time this year. My short game remains in a shambles...

	03-06-2003 18:45									#40
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I'm actually using my sandwedge for the short game. I find it has better back spin than either a pitching wedge or a nine iron. Perfect for anything say 60 metres from the green.

Works for me, then again, here I don't have to worry about things like carrying the bag so I get to concentrate more on the game.

	03-06-2003 23:00									#41
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My early thought was to collect whatever rag tag army we could collect from huts & send them out for "harvesting" ai cities -- razing akin to failure

	04-06-2003 05:48									#42
	Re: musing... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit We're all used to maximizing our position through clever city positioning, early roads/trade, and the like. Amazing how this "simple" set of rules changes the basic nature of that approach...

That's the idea

I want to grab some nomads and soon, when I play my turns. Lots of good city sites out there, but more than that, we need some roads. Seafaring and Harbours is another tech on the wish list... since the ocean doesn't need to be roaded and irrigated

@Old n Slow - if this was a smaller map, with a lot of civs close by, we'd undoubtably have overrun them, using the strat you described

	04-06-2003 09:08									#43
	The humdrum reign of King STYOM Got spare money?

550 BC: Toys with worker placement. Annoying, the corruption thing. Normally, the solution would be to maximize shields per DaveV and pump out Settlers... but, oh well, isn't going to happen. BB, with its 0 corruption as capital, ought not to be doing something as shield-intensive as building a wonder - it should have its workers in the water. Nothing to be done about that, tho. No real changes, presses ENTER

525: Not much notices we are running a deficit We may have to sell that Barracks.

500: Hut 274,0 - Nomads!! Ooops, on the North Pole... which means they'll need, oh, about 56 turns to walk back to a decent city site (looks up 'A Study of Hut Outcomes', by samson.) They start walking... we should have Magnetism in no time, and a Galleon to go pick them up BUT, if we find a hut in nomad-suited territory, I might have to disband the little b*****s... as we have less than 16 cities, we cannot have another NON

Indians move capital to Calcutta
Zulus are nearly finished Colossus.

475: Not much. Zulus build Colossus.

450: Begin to collect Diplomats in BB, as poor man's Caravans.

425: Temple in Free Parking, starts Diplomat... and we squeeze out another beaker by putting workers on the water.

Land Ho, south of Coventry.

Hut 196,58 - (suited to tribes, not nomads, so we don't disband our polar traveler) - Advanced Tribe NoWhalesForYou!

Bede rates us fourth in "Powerfulness"

400: Barracks sold in Rhodes. We were at -2 g/turn, and that wasn't helping.

Indians are nearly finished Pyramids.

375: Hut at 187, 79. We debate long and hard and finally the Nomads wandering the arctic wastes are fed to a pack of hungry walruses (walri?) Now a nomad-free society, we open the hut and find... a HORDE of Horsemen

Dehi builds Pyramids. Indians switch from Pyramids to Lighthouse We are still a looooong way from finishing LH. French change to Hanging Gardens

350: Cul-de-sac builds Temple. Rhodes, when it finishes the Ellie, looks like a good place to start another wonder. Assuming we build any

325: Tweak a little science, to get Pottery in 2 turns, instead of 1 3/4 turns

Spanish start Lighthouse.

300: Rhodes starts Lighthouse. I still have hopes of getting 2 of MPE, HG, LH or STWA, depending on what techs we find in huts...

275: Pottery discovered, at long last. Debate on whether to go for the 'quick fix' of Seafaring but ultimately choose to research Currency, at the near-blinding pace of 19 turns/tech. We could finish HG at the cost of the 3 Diplomats in BB and selling off some Temples... but choose not to, for now. Let's see how bad things get, first.

Barbarian ship sighted near Coventry. Luckily, we have a Horse and Ellie inside.

250: More exploring.

Barbarian Archers land. Chinese start HG.

225: Elephant dispatches an Archer. More exploring.

200: Ellie kills another Archer.

175: Stupidly did not notice impending disorder in Cul-de-sac; buys Elvis.

Barbarians near Freaky Finds!

150: Hut at 95,13 > 25 g

125: Moves a Diplomat back towards FF - hoping to buy a barb horse and catch the king

100: Hut at 306,0 > 25 g

Legion defeats Barb horse in FF, becomes vet

75: More exploring.

50: Hut at 212,94 > Literacy

Well, I could blame this on my hut luck, but we are down to 4th in pop at 440K, we still haven't built a wonder (though one is practically built in BB - and we have a good start in Rhodes, also) and we still haven't found anyone else!

Suggestions/notes for my successor: The Diplomat in Freaky Finds is lying in wait for the unattended barb horse, which can be bribed for about 40 g and then nab the king for 150... if all goes to plan

Boring Bastard has no trade specials... so a HG-induced celebration is of limited utility there. But then again, all other sites have so much corruption, they wouldn't be much of an improvement.

Next!

	04-06-2003 09:17									#44
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The save would probably be of assistance ....

Also, on further reflection, what I really should have done was research Seafaring, build some Harbours, get a bunch of cities up to size 5 and Xin for both science and tax Oh well... Cul-de-sac is close to being Xinnable.

Attachment: ro_b50.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	04-06-2003 20:12									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I thought that it was a limit of one Non per continent -- iirc, the Poles doen't seem to count (I recall having more than one Non at a pole walking for service)...

	05-06-2003 00:59									#46
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how about letting a semi-newby play.

	05-06-2003 01:28									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Zedd how about letting a semi-newby play.

Though it seems that with the 20-15 turns you may want to consider closeing the doors, in which case no hard feelings.

	05-06-2003 03:30									#48
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Hello, Zedd. Hope you're well.

Don't know if the lord of the manor feels there's still room, but it's good to see you active again. Are you hanging at the Demo Game, too?

	05-06-2003 04:06									#49
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Jrabbit Don't know if the lord of the manor feels there's still room, but it's good to see you active again. Are you hanging at the Demo Game, too?[QUOTE] [QUOTE] Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man 1. atomant 2. Jrabbit 3. OldnSlow 4. SG(2) 5. STYOM 6. Bob_Smurf42 7. SCG 8. La Fayette 9. ? 10. ?

based on his last post, i'd have to say there's at least 2 spaces left

	05-06-2003 04:51									#50
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Zedd how about letting a semi-newby play.

You're in There's still room!

@Old n Slow - I thought that 1-nomad-per-continent was the rule, too. I'm inclined to go with samson's analysis, though, since he appears to have done a lot of testing. Look up the thread, if you haven't seen it... it's quite good. Explains why we always seem to get stuck with WarCode from those early huts, too.

	05-06-2003 07:29									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thinking realisti pessimistically, I can't play 'til Fri, if someone wants to jump in real quick, go ahead.(Real quick, mind you)

	05-06-2003 18:12									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Hello, Zedd. Hope you're well. Don't know if the lord of the manor feels there's still room, but it's good to see you active again. Are you hanging at the Demo Game, too?

You Bet I gave up the second ful time job and have an "inprogress" PC that I'm putting together, but it runs well enough to play Civ

	07-06-2003 05:55									#53
	Remove this text

50 B.C.
--Change Coventry to temple from elphant.
--We are running a deficet of 2g/t, but changing taxes drops science rate to 36 turns-Demo game-like numbers! However, since there is no currency, we can't do anything-not that it would help anyway, since corruption destroys any extra trade.
25
--NoWhales Elephant->temple
--some rushing and switching of workers
--Indians nearly complete LH
A.D. 1
--High council argues with eachother
--Advanced tribe of Highway Robbery
--Boring Bastard switch to LH, rush for 12g
--Indians abandon LH
20
--Barb horse attacks FF and dies, dip chases king
--BB builds LH->dip
--Rhodes switch to HG
40
--Chinese nearly finish HG
60
--Barb king disbands in terror of our mighty diplomat!
--What to do with Rhodes? We can't rush HG, the only other wonder is GL...soooo...switch to CH.
--French have nearly comleted HG
--Chinese finish HG
--Zulus change from HG to Oracle
--French change from HG to GW
80
--Chariot takes hut...NOMAD!!!
He gets sent back home to do some roadwork for much-needed trade.
100
--Coventry goes into disorder -hire an elvis-rush temple
120
--Highway Robbery goes into disorder-elvis will hold them off until the warrior is done.
--Coventry builds temple(still needs 1 elvis to keep out of disorder, but with waste & corruption, another worker could, at the best, raise food)->warrior
--NOTE TO SELF: CHECK CITIES TO PREVENT DISORDER!!!
140
--Discover Currency-pick trade
160
--Rhodes courthouse->market
Cul-de-sac grows-DOES NOT go into disorder, instead Xins.
180
--
200
--Change tax to 50/50 to get out of debt
--NoWhales temple->dip
220
--Change Cul-De-Sac from market to CH-not that it'll get done anytime soon...
--Spanish nearly finish GW
240
--Frozen warrior steps into warm-looking hut, is greeted by 3 barb horses, trapping him against the black void of the pole.....
And on that happy note, here is the (so far) roadless save. The dips are all headed towards Rhodes, to build... I'm sure someone will give them a suitable job. We have much corruption, hopefully the CH's will take care of that, and then markets will actually be worth the effort. Sorry about missing HG-I saw a way to get the LH, but didn't know the Chinese were so close...

BB

Attachment: ro_a240.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	07-06-2003 05:59									#54
	Put an end to popups!

Oh yeah, that settler was going to board the sleeping ship, but if someone has abetter idea, go ahead.(It would be your turn anyway, so I can't really stop you)

BB

	10-06-2003 05:08									#55
	Increase the size of your Attachments

* Six Thousand Year Old Man gently nudges SCG

Hey, it's your turn!


Let's give SCG until Wednesday to respond, I haven't seen him around lately. Otherwise, La Fayette is up.

	12-06-2003 17:48									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Looks like its your turn La Fayette

	12-06-2003 18:10									#57
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ack! spent 3 days volunteering for Special Olympics and never saw BobSmurf_42's post mute point, but go ahead and skip me wouldn't be able to play before saturday

	13-06-2003 01:12									#58
	Put an end to popups!

I just got word that we are going to have "corporat Cutbacks", looks like should have kept the other FT job. Well this means I will be spending the next few days on Monster or some such nonsense so please remove me from the list. (having never even played )

	13-06-2003 02:22									#59
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Well, good luck to you, Zedd!
I play tomorrow.

	13-06-2003 02:29									#60
	Tired of ads?

Hang in there, Zedd! Remember, someone has to survivie. Best of luck!

I'd wish La Fayette luck, too, but he doesn't need it...