26-05-2003 14:35									#1
	Which Civ do People prefer for peaceful victory Tired of ads?

Hello Everyone,

This is my first posting so bear with me
I was wondering whether there was any kind of consensus on what the best civ to play is when going for a peaceful victory?

Also, what combination of attributes do people prefer (ie industrious, scientific etc)

	26-05-2003 15:46									#2
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Hi skizzed,

Welcome on board.
As you probably know, playing *really* peaceful games is not the preferred way of playing civ 3.
Most people play the second part of their game peacefully, after their civ is the only one standing, having forgotten to click on the 'domination' and 'conquest' victory buttons before starting the game.
Anyway, since I am one of the few who likes to play this games (PP games, as for Perfect Peacenik), I usually played the French (Carthage is also good). Why?

I'd rather play on huge maps. Therefore, the commercial/industrious traits are really great to play with (see my thread about civ-specific strategy: the French').
I am about mid-game playing the Americans: industrious and expansionist are also good traits, but the expansionist trait (with the Scout) really kicks in on huge maps.
My 1 gp advice is to play one or both of the following traits: industrious, commercial, religious.

	26-05-2003 20:13									#3
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I would prefer Carthage over France (though both are probably the best).

The reason is that just in case someone decides to get nasty with you at the beginning you have Numidian Mercs which are the best defenders in the game up until Musketmen. Mercs also weigh heavily in the F3 "strong-weak" ranking which will make you appear strong to the others (thus making it less likely for other civs to attack you).

I would suggest regardless of your city placement to build some camp cities close to capital (2 will suffice) these will only build a barracks and begin cranking out Numidians at every 5-6 turns to defend your cities while the other cities concentrate on building improvements.

-MZ

	26-05-2003 20:20									#4
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Now, as far as traits go (and yes, this deserves a whole new post), the best trait for single-player is ind/rel of which there is only one civ, Egypt. The advantage of cheap temples can really get your culture going. On huge maps however, I would heed Mountain Sage's advice and choose Carthage or France or the USA.

Lately I've been taking in a liking for industrial/scientific civs, which are Persia and Ottomans, especially Persia (love those Immortals). Half-price libraries make them even better than temples and in case you do get involved in a nasty war, those Immortals will kick ass like no other. Free tech with an era change also is nice

	26-05-2003 21:43									#5
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The Babylonians perhaps deserve the title as potentially best peace/building nation.

Scientific and Religious.

AJ

	27-05-2003 00:33									#6
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Thanks for the responses. Are there any civs that players wouldnt touch with a barge pole (whatever type of game they're playing)?

	27-05-2003 01:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by skizzed Thanks for the responses. Are there any civs that players wouldnt touch with a barge pole (whatever type of game they're playing)?

Quickly, I'd say the English, the Indians and the Koreans (from PtW). Their traits are not great, UU's are just decent and it quite sucks for the English and the Koreans.

I don't like the Zulus, but for a real warmongering game, they can be good...

--Kon--

	27-05-2003 03:27									#8
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quote: Originally posted by skizzed Thanks for the responses. Are there any civs that players wouldnt touch with a barge pole (whatever type of game they're playing)?

Korea!!!

England sucks too

	27-05-2003 09:05									#9
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I'm going to have to echo the sentiments above and say that I stay away from England and Korea unless I get stuck with them through random draw (as has unfortunately happened in some of my PBEMs )

	27-05-2003 09:06									#10
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I prefer huge maps and play a mostly builder game, so I generally play what everyone else recommends for that: Carthage/France, USA, Egypt.

Of course, I sometimes play other civs just for the heck of it. For reasons I can't fathom, I tend to do quite well when playing Scientific-Commercial (Greece & Korea).

	27-05-2003 09:42									#11
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Greece. I had such great fun playing Greece in the OCC. The Greeks started with Alphabet & Bronze Working, so I can go for Ancient Wonders GL and C. It also have a good early defensive unit. The Scientific & Commerical trait are excellant for the later Industrial & Modern Age.

	27-05-2003 12:37									#12
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Egypt i'd say...Ind. + Rel. traits are perfect for me. Either that or Carthage.

	27-05-2003 15:39									#13
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quote: Originally posted by skizzed Thanks for the responses. Are there any civs that players wouldnt touch with a barge pole (whatever type of game they're playing)?

Generally speaking,

1. The militaristic ones, since you plan to play a peaceful game (whoha, that was a very clever, wasn't it ? ).
2. The expansionist ones seem to me a bit overrated (even if Dominae made a very strong case on her 'American' thread), because their trait is only useful in the early game. All other traits are with you for the whole game. But then, on huge maps, fast scouts can be very helpful.

My piece of advice is to try different civs. After a while, you'll feel more confortable with some than others.

	27-05-2003 19:29									#14
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Good peaceful civs:

France/Carthage
Babylon
Egypt
America
India

India isn't as strong as some of the others, but the traits scream "peaceful builder" almost as much as Babylon's. Their unit could actually be quite useful if, due to your peaceful play, you are without iron or horses. Spain has the same traits, but a UU that doesn't stike me as useful.

Civs to avoid if you want to be peaceful: Mongols, Vikings, Zulu, China, Aztecs, Celts, Japan, Rome, Germany.

Those are the militaristic civs, and as such are wasted on the peaceful player.

England & Korea do suck, as others have said. For that matter, I also have a low opinion of Greece (despite their UU) and Russia.

-Arrian

	28-05-2003 04:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian England & Korea do suck, as others have said. For that matter, I also have a low opinion of Greece (despite their UU) and Russia. -Arrian

I hate Greece too , granted, their UU will keep you safe until Muskets but still, I would gladly trade any one of their traits for industrial before I would consider it a kick ass civ.

I ain't too fond of Russia, AND Germany either. Honestly the only non-industrial combo I like is mil/rel (japanese and aztecs) although the Iroqouis will do too despite the fact that these three civs are rather warmongerish

	28-05-2003 13:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage As you probably know, playing *really* peaceful games is not the preferred way of playing civ 3. Most people play the second part of their game peacefully, after their civ is the only one standing

skizzed,

The above comment might be true of most people's playstyle (for the sheer pleasure of bonking heads), but it's not the only way. Monarch can be beaten 95% of the time without ever starting a war, and when that is mastered Emperor also be beaten peacefully, but is less fun to play. Some folks have even beaten Deity peacefully.

Industrious is the best single trait, with Egypt, Carthage/France, & America being strong. For non-industrial civs, the Babylonians are popular for mega-culture, Greece for good defence, and India for their resourceless UU and rel/commercial combo. Persians have the special advantage of not meeting the Persians!

Whilst not as good, every other trait can also be exploited by the (perhaps-more-experienced) peacemonger, even including militaristic.

Industrious : Fast mines and roads for economic power, and roads to new city-sites. (Must ... claim ... land)

Commercial : Low corruption for more productive empires and easier-to-build Forbidden Palace. Peaceful empires need to REX (rapidly expand) to claim land and resources.

Relgious : Cheap, early temples for border-growth to claim land.

Scientific : Need to get Literacy fast-ish to exploit fully for culture, but free techs very handy at the bargaining table.

Expansionist : Scout-about service for tech, locating resources, rivals, contact and more tech. Also can do quick granary - Abe's Awesome American Party-Piece.

Militaristic : Not the most obvious builder trait, but cheap harbours (more gold and tech) are cool when there's plenty of coastline. The cheap barracks and walls can give the builder early security, allowing a faster start on improvements.

Full exploitation of a civ's traits involve building a tech strategy based around the starting techs. which is beyond the scope of this reply.

	29-05-2003 07:00									#17
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Oopsies. I so meant the Ottomans. Indust./Sci, with the Cav Unit...
But then again, the Roosians are ok...

I'm shocked that no one has said Russia yet. I love their Expansionist/Scientific combo. By the time the others find you it's too late to slow you down-- big cities, tech lead. I find that the Cavalry unit always comes at a great time- no big challenger.

Last edited by MattH on 03-06-2003 at 18:47