27-05-2003 04:09									#1
	What AI habit or feature irritates you most? Suffering from ads?

It annoys me that the very first moment I meet Bismarck, he's "annoyed" with me.

But the AI habit that drives me nuts is blithely thinking they can send troops across my territory whenever they damned well feel like it. For some time I thought they were going to attack me but eventually I realised they were trying to get to another of their cities which lay beyond my territory or they were going to attack someone else way over there. Nevertheless, I find it very irritating. If I try it on their precious property, bam!, hardly has my guy taken a step when someone objects.

It may only be a game but I take it personally. (Probably why I love Civ as much as I do.)

	27-05-2003 04:58									#2
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i hate how they dont stop once you tell them to leave, they just keep trying, but the minute you enter their waters, its "woah, what do you think youre doing?"

i hate how, especially on harder difficulties, the AI seems to share maps and technologies with the other AI civs almost every turn.

oh, another is how they'll sign all of these alliances and declare war with someone on the other side of the war, and 10 turns later theyre at peace and they never even fought each other.

	27-05-2003 06:19									#3
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If you think about it, you can act the same

Its entirely up to you.

They step into your territory, and you tell them to leave.
You step into their territory, and they tell you to leave.
What happens afterwards depends on the actions taken

	27-05-2003 06:59									#4
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obviously, but theres still a problem.

when you do it, there is simply a penalty: worse relations. when they do it, its just if you get upset with that particular civ or not, but no exact penalty against them...

	27-05-2003 07:02									#5
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I hate how my cities never get bombed by A.I. planes or artillery. I want to be bombed, damn it!

	27-05-2003 08:36									#6
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When workers are automated, they do a lot of unnecessary running around.

	27-05-2003 08:53									#7
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I am OFFENDED by its EXISTENCE, so much so as to fix this deep flaw in the game

	27-05-2003 09:08									#8
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i hate that ai actions are so rigidly scripted especially when they are doing something totally stupid like:

ai has reached it city limit and hospitals are many centuries in the future, yet the workers are irrigating;

modded settlers to cost 3 pop, yet ai cities will build a settler even tho it'll take 20 turns to build but 40 turns to get to the necessary population;

ai has massed enough troops to take many of my cities yet all i have to do is get a military alliance with a weaker country and the AI will turn around to march half way across the map to attack them even tho i was virtually defenseless;

ai builds the cheapest unit during times of peace so that they never have many if any, of the more powerful units. this strategy is ok for times of war, but peace is when you want few but stronger units;

ai never seems to save any money for upgrading even tho i modded govs to max out between 70-90% science;

workers working tiles that are not part of any city;

thats all for now

	27-05-2003 11:18									#9
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The AI seems to seldom use bombardment and isn't very capable in naval warfare. They also repeatedly move their units into my territory no matter how many times I demand them to leave. The AI also seems to attack through the SAME point all the time so dealing with their invasions is either irritating or too easy.

	27-05-2003 12:06									#10
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I have a lot of respect for the thought and intricacies of the AI.

But I think it is a set of instructions and not a thinking AI, and after a while, most players can predict ahead of time how to deal with an AI opponent.

It would be interesting if there was some sort of learning mechanism that would allow the AI to at least adjust some of its more fundamental strategies on the fly. But even that is subject to manipulation if players find out the inputs the AI uses to learn.

The quest for the perfect Civilization AI continues, but I have to say that I have a great deal of respect for Soren. the AI has continually learned from humans because of his continued patronage to this forum.

I really hope the AI gets a nice bump for the Conquests XP. There are people like me who will plunk down $30 for that. One of the biggest reasons I got PTW, aside from the new units and new civs was the improved AI. When I found out it was improved, I just had to have it.

	27-05-2003 13:00									#11
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Want to be more challenged by the AI? That's what difficulty levels are for. What I like is overall improvements to the AI that make sense. What I don't like is when people pressurize Firaxis to make it simply more difficult for everyone on all difficulty levels.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I usually see lots of AI ships and I frequently get attacked by bombers and artillery. The artillery even have escorts.

	27-05-2003 13:01									#12
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The AI doesn't have the slightest clue on how to use any form of artillery effectively. A possible exception is naval bombardment, it's not good at it, not really, but better than decent, sort of...

Imagine a learning AI that not only learns from it's mistakes but connects to the internet to exchange strategies with other AI's. They may even get their own forum here at apolyton

	27-05-2003 13:08									#13
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In a debug game, I've seen Carthage, who had about 16 ironclads, concentrate half its fleet on a Japanese city, bombard the hell out of it and reduced its poplation from 12 to 1.

It also used lone artillery to fire. They also moved the arty out with an infantry escort.

All it needs now is to concentrate its artys like it does its ironclads.

One thing I find, the AI build artys for defense more than offense. It usually have about 1 to 5 arty in their capitals to weaken an attack.

	27-05-2003 13:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by bongo The AI doesn't have the slightest clue on how to use any form of artillery effectively. A possible exception is naval bombardment, it's not good at it, not really, but better than decent, sort of...

You're overstating. In my last game it used artillery to destroy improvements around my bordering cities. Okay, it could do better but to say it doesn't have the slightest clue is being a bit harsh.

	27-05-2003 13:21									#15
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Cathage in this debug game is an economic giant, despie having a modest territory. It is also very advanced.

What is really interesting is just the sheer amount of naval activity going on. Each Civ have their ships arrayed in defensive formation. But Carthage here has its fleets all over the coasts of rival Civs.

The game btw is 11 Ai civs, regent and big map. 130X130.

Carthage = Brown
Orange = Persia
Pink = China
Aqua blue = Celts

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	27-05-2003 13:22									#16
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This is a fleet that conducted the genocide in Nara (Japan)

You also see a carrier there.

Covered up by the pulldown menu is a battleship escorting another carrier.

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	27-05-2003 13:24									#17
	Remove this text

Indian ships (grey) watch with concern at a Carthiginian settler fleet flirts off its coast.

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	27-05-2003 14:08									#18
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That's what makes them decent instead of bad. They can be a real pain in the *belgium* when they have a large naval force but they don't know when to pull back or how to build up if they are much smaller.

	27-05-2003 14:46									#19
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quote: They can be a real pain in the *belgium*

You equate belgians to ass?

oh boy, you're gonna hear it from my Belgian friends

	27-05-2003 15:24									#20
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Ever read hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?

Belgium is a very naughty word indeed

	27-05-2003 18:16									#21
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hi ,

the out of the blue declarations of war when you have good relations with that civ , .....

the way they move the units , ....... having a stack of low on defense units and a stack of high on defense units while combined you would not be able to pick of the low on def units , .....

the fact that the ai starves its people when they can change the gov to a better one or when they can take a resource or buy one due to unhappiness ,.....

the stupid drafts to the end instead of rushing the same unit when they have loads of money , ......

have a nice day

	27-05-2003 18:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by bongo That's what makes them decent instead of bad. They can be a real pain in the *belgium* when they have a large naval force but they don't know when to pull back or how to build up if they are much smaller.

Yep, here's the first Begian friend to ask,
what's that phrase about?

Perhaps a small referral to Belgian foreign politics lately?

Soit, already happy people now know there exists a saying as 'being a real pain in the Belgium', albeit not so ... nice

AJ

	27-05-2003 18:34									#23
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On topic:

AI civs sometimes fight till extinction, even if you offer them peace.
AI not being good in overall militaristic operations, especially on forehand planned invasions, combined attacks and fighting multiple fronts.

AJ

	27-05-2003 18:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by bongo That's what makes them decent instead of bad. They can be a real pain in the *belgium* when they have a large naval force but they don't know when to pull back or how to build up if they are much smaller.

hi ,

an other one of those things , .....

if an elite battleship looses one hitpoint it retreats yet an unprotected transport sits in front of it , ...

human players shall go for it if it happens to them , but the AI wont , .....

Soren , Mike , ....

have a nice day

	27-05-2003 20:49									#25
	Communications with Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It bothers me that when I first meet a civ, and ask to trade communications, the AI values the civs it hasn't met differently on how advanced they are. Maybe on how isolated they are as well, who knows?

Example: in a recent game I met the Russians on another continent. They had communications with 4 civs I didn't. I knew of 7 the Russians had not met. Of the civs I knew, Egypt was the most advanced (way more so than Russia) and Egypt had communications with all the civs on our shared continent except Greece. Greece was isolated on an island, had communications with no other civ than me, and was struggling along the tech tree (and far less advanced than Russia). The Russians were willing to trade communications with anyone for Egypt, and completely unwilling to barter for communications with Greece.

Went back after the game and played that turn a few different ways once I knew how advanced every civ was. The AI would trade like for like, or to its advantage, but never a lesser advanced civ I knew, for a more advanced civ it knew.

Quite a trick for someone who didn't know these other civs existed just a turn ago.

	27-05-2003 21:51									#26
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i too get annoyed by the AIs use of bombardment. it seems they are more likely to destroy tile improvements instead of supporting their own or their allies assualts against cities. since the AIs know where all units are, allied AI units should support the main battles more. speaking of which, the AI ability to know where all my units are is more of a hinderance than an advantage. I prefer to keep border towns heavily defended and inner cities lightly defended. this causes the AI to walk into traps from inferior forces. i once was invaded by over 100 AI units, but because they came in 2 big stacks and about 30ish singlely, i easily picked off the singles and it was much easier to survive the big stacks then. had the AI forces been concentrated, there's no way I could have withstood that many units. I was happy to see the AI amass that many units, but just wish they were better organized.

	27-05-2003 22:56									#27
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the fact that the ai will not surrender it's entire civ to you when you are clearly going to kill him anyways...

	27-05-2003 23:09									#28
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Failure to annex neighboring (AI) civs!! A huge AI civ will sit next to a much smaller civ for ages, when it should completely annex them. Even when they go to war they never finish the job. In fact it should be more difficult in general to get the AI to make peace.
On larger maps (and more civs) the game is basically over after you annex 2-3 other civs. Since the AI is so passive you're then twice the size of any other civ. This isn't a game you can win by just waiting in line to get killed.
.

	27-05-2003 23:24									#29
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Maybe by raising up the Agressiveness of all civilization in the Editor it can make A.I. more Power-War Hungry?

see ya

	28-05-2003 00:22									#30
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Dear AI: stop being angry.
Signed,
Matt

Soren- any comments on these concerns? We know you read this