30-05-2003 06:58									#31
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Case, I like that idea. Is this what you mean?

	30-05-2003 12:25									#32
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While suitably awful, I was actually thinking of a pith helmet - the prefered headwear for all British Imperial sterotypes (when the climate was too hot for bowler hats of course).

This chap could serve as a good model:

	30-05-2003 23:09									#33
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How about this?

Attachment: coladmin.gif
This has been downloaded 282 time(s).

	31-05-2003 01:39									#34
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Far better than my awful attempt. Thanx. Have you made/seen any guys in fedoras? Here's David Lean's impression of a reporter covering the Near East.

	31-05-2003 05:50									#35
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*tosses plans for his El Aurens scenario out the window*

Well... If you need help with the Arabic spellings for anything (Hejazi, Najdi, Yemeni, Syrian, etc.), Boco, just lemee know.

I also have quite a few books on the subject (plus the movie ) if you need any references to sticky questions.

	31-05-2003 07:49									#36
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Thanks, WV! And yes, I've got a load of questions.

Spelling is kind of a joke in this scenario. Didn't know whether to go for English, Turkish, or Arabic. I think the last two have some serious transliteration problems. Since it's played from the Allied side, I've opted for English versions of the names, but even then I often have a few choices. Lawrence was awful in this regard, often using several different names for the same place in "Seven Pillars".

Is this too lame a solution? I have over 90 cities in Cyrenaica, Egypt, and the Vilayets of Hejaz, Beyrout, and Damascus. Tripolitania, Fezzan, Mesopotamia, Najd, Asir, and points further south are offmap. If there's a better solution, I could PM you the city list.

I also faced a problem with terrain. Desert tracks are called Darbs in Egypt, Masrabs in Cyrenaica, and most likely something else in the Hejaz and Syria. Same with salt flats. I opted for a mishmash of Egyptian and English terms. The terrain list is:

Desert
Arable
Buildings (underlying cities)
River (e.g. Jordan)
Road (in more populated areas)
Jhebel
Hills
Darb
Marsh (mainly in the Nile delta)
Sabkha (e.g. Qattara depression)
Navigable (Mediterranean, Red Sea, Nile)

Wadi (Civ2 rivers)
Broad Gge RR (Civ2 RR)
Light Rail (Civ2 Road)

Unexplored (usually deep desert)

Are there better Arabic terms for any of the English ones in this list?

I have an improvement (courthouse) called Markaz to represent a seat of local government. I think that works for Egypt, but not elsewhere. Is there another Arabic term that could cover both 'county' governments in regions under colonial (Italian, British, or Turk) control as well as independent tribal councils in Bedouin regions?

	31-05-2003 18:21									#37
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1st thing; I'll wait for an MGE version. Don't have ToT, and too much of an ancient curmugeon to go buy it now. What if I liked it better than MGE?

2nd thing; I'm not trying to be sarcastic, even though it may seem like it. But can someone tell me why the fascination with T. E. Lawrence and the WWI desert campaign?

Just curious.

	31-05-2003 23:20									#38
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1st thing: anyone posting on this forums is a bit of curmudgeon. We found a good game and will be d**ned if we give it up for a less scenario-capable beast (Civ3). I was kinda stubborn myself for picking a platform that is more capable, yet not accessible to a huge chunk of the Civ2 community.

2nd thing: my own interest in the WWI Near East theater stems from the current mess in that region. Many of the conflicting claims for territory stem from promises made by the British during that period. These agreements were remarkably successful in terms of immediate results. The modern legacy, however, couldn't be worse.

Lawrence was the most deified and denigrated leader of WWI. Undoubtedly he was an essential part of the leadership that transformed the local Hashemite/Ateiba revolt in the Hejaz into a widespread revolt spanning 5 modern day countries. He accomplished a tremendous feat by unifying dozens of Arab tribes into a force that tied down huge numbers of Turks, who could ill afford the distraction. Yet he still felt oddly compelled to exaggerate some of his personal exploits. The British could have won Palestine and Syria without him, but at a significantly higher cost.

The scenario reflects this. You can win without ever creating the Lawrence unit, but it's harder and the victory is less extensive. The Arab units are weak (the principle Arab unit, the Bedouin, is a hamstrung spy with a 0df, 6h, 6f), but thanks to a combination of well-known Civ2 tricks they are uniquely able to capture the Hejaz and Akaba. In pure Civ2 terms, it's kind of fun to play wide-ranging campaigns in the desert on a shoestring, but the total amount of victory points available in those regions is small relative to those in Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria.

	01-06-2003 05:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Exile 2nd thing; I'm not trying to be sarcastic, even though it may seem like it. But can someone tell me why the fascination with T. E. Lawrence and the WWI desert campaign?

Aside from what Boco wrote, another reason is that Lawrence was one of the very few WW1 commanders to emerge with a reputation for achieving major results while taking relatively few casualties. Of course, Lawrance's achievements are often greatly overstated, as is the extent of his control over the Arab forces.

As for the desert war: it has a reputation as the only 'clean' campaign of WW1. Compared to the mess in France, the British armies in the region were able to fight a relatively cheap and fast moving war, and this really caught the public's imagination at the time. The romantic aspects of the war were also important - the Palestine campaign was waged in the biblical lands, and involved various stirring elements such as massed cavalry offencives, and a seemingly popular revolt by independantly minded Arabs against opressive Turks. Again, this reputation isn't totally deserved.

	01-06-2003 12:07									#40
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I guess I'm surprised that one would have to defend being interested in the Arabian campaign in WWI. It certainly was one of rapid movement and surprise, in marked contrast to most of it's contemporaries. The national/colonial factor is an added element of interest. It combined guerilla warfare by irregular troops with traditional set-piece battles fought by European regulars. Add the element of sea power, and I think it's a real winner.

There is another, much more obscure WWI campaign that deserves a lot more attention. German Colonel von Lettow Vorbeck fought a classic guerrilla campaign against much stronger British and South African forces in defense of German East Africa (Tanganyka). He didn't give up after the loss of the colony, instead invading first Portugese Mozambique and then British Rhodesia before finally surrendering only after the Armistice was signed in Europe.

	02-06-2003 02:16									#41
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The campaign in German SE Africa - what a gem that could be! Talk about unusual battles: the Battle of Tanga (otherwise known as the Battle of the Bees), the sinking of SMS Königsberg in the Rufiji delta, the battle of Lake Tanganyika (the British naval commander was a cross-dresser in a nearly Victorian era). IIRC, Stefan Härtel was thinking about doing something on it.

	02-06-2003 02:22									#42
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Is @NEWAIRLIFT in Game.txt bypassed if you award it via GiveTechnology? Isn't it associated with Radio?

My event stack space is running out again. I'd like to transfer a chunk of text from Events to someplace else. This occurs after Lawrence crosses the Nefud into modern Jordan.

Already have text in @GOLDENAGE, @NEWXFORM, @NEWRAILROAD, and @NEWFARMLAND, but not @NEWPARADROP.

	02-06-2003 03:23									#43
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Found this in WK's tip on ToT Advances.

quote: The message about Airlifts and Airstrips will be displayed whenever Airports become available and NOT when Radio is invented.

	02-06-2003 06:45									#44
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In response to your questions, I would honestly go with English spellings of everything. Going with Arabic or other Middle Eastern terms of things might confuse players too much. It is generally a better idea to keep cities all named within one language (i.e. All English or all Arabic).

Like Medina and Mecca are spelt as Medinah and Makkah in Arabic. But doing so might confuse a player. It would be especially well to keep it in English if the Allies are indeed the intended player civ.

The Egyptian variants are the most commonly spoken tounge in the Asian Middle East (not Africa). So Darbs would be the correct use in the Levant, Syria and Arabia.

Here is a list of Arabic terrain terms (yours included);

Aab = Water/Ocean
Darb = Desert Tracks
Sabkha = Land Depression
Wadi = River or Canal
Arz = Arable Land
Baadiyah = Desert
Jhebel
Charaagaah = Plainslands
Hisaar = Fort/Fortress
Hadd = Unexplored/Boundary
Raah = Road
Shahr = City/Buildings
Koh = Hills or Mountains
Kinaarah = Marsh/River Bank

I'm afraid I don't know the correct terms for the railroads.

Urdoo is Arabic for army. You may be able to label a unit that. Dunno, just an idea.

Baazaar is an Arabic term for market which is easily recognised in the English language.

Karwaan is Arabic for Caravan.

Maidaan is Arabic for battlefield.

Takht means throne or seat of power in Arabic, so that could also work for Markaz. Darbaar means royal court, if that's what you're looking for.

	02-06-2003 07:39									#45
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Thanks, WV. I think I'll opt for English town names and Arabic terrain. Just can't pass up those terrains you've posted! Coupla more questions:

What's the difference between Hisaar and Qasr?

Sometimes I see an apostrophe between double vowels (e.g. Ma'an, Dera'a, Ha'il). Is this necessary? Should I be consistent and have it either between all instances or none?

Is a Koh less rocky and steep than a Jhebel?

If you have better terms for the following, I'll use 'em.

My Arab units are:
Arab Regular Infantry (Urmoo?)
Ageyl
Camelry
Bedouins
Feisal/Faysal (two different versions of the same emir)
Ali
Abdullah
Auda

Impassable Terrain
Sand Storm (generic term one for a big one)

EDIT: Are there different terms for year-round watercourses and flood runoffs?

Also forgot the specials.
Hods, 2, 2, 1,1,1, ; Drt
Citrus, 1, 2, 2,1,1, ; Arid
Grassland, 1, 2, 2,1,0, ; Grs
Shadoof, 3, 1, 3,1,2, ; River
Dates, 171, 2, 2,1,1, ; Road
Copper, 6, 6, 0,2,2, ; Mou
Olives, 3, 4, 2,1,2, ; Hills
Ain, 171, 2, 2,1,1, ; Darb
Papyrus, 3, 1, 1,2,1, ; Marsh
Glasswort, 6, 2, 1,0,0, ; Sabkha
Fishing Grd,1, 2, 2,0,2, ; Navigable
Grass, 2, 2, 1,1,1, ; Drt
Dates, 1, 2, 2,1,1, ; Arid
Grassland, 1, 2, 2,1,0, ; Grs
Shadoof, 3, 1, 3,1,2, ; River
Citrus, 171, 2, 2,1,2, ; Road
Iron, 6, 6, 0,3,1, ; Mou
Phosphate, 3, 4, 1,2,1, ; Hills
Bir, 171, 2, 1,1,1, ; Darb
Rice, 3, 1, 3,0,1, ; Marsh
Gypsum, 6, 2, 0,2,1, ; Sabkha
Pearls, 1, 2, 0,0,3, ; Navigable

Last edited by Boco on 02-06-2003 at 07:47

	07-06-2003 05:24									#46
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quote: What's the difference between Hisaar and Qasr?

Wish I knew myself. AFAIK, there is no difference. But I could be wrong...

quote: Sometimes I see an apostrophe between double vowels (e.g. Ma'an, Dera'a, Ha'il). Is this necessary? Should I be consistent and have it either between all instances or none?

DO NOT USE APOSTROPHES!
Yes, the spelling is correct if you use an apostrophe. But Civ does not like apostrophes, and everytime i've used them in a scenario it causes bugs.

quote: Is a Koh less rocky and steep than a Jhebel?

The other way around.

quote: Arab Regular Infantry (Urmoo?)

If you call it Urmoo instead of Urdoo I will have to beat you with a trout.

quote: Ageyl Camelry Bedouins Feisal/Faysal (two different versions of the same emir) Ali Abdullah Auda

There are other terms, but I forget most of them. If I run across them I will post em.

If you want an excellently detailed analysis of the Arab Revolt (with pics and stuff), check out www.emulateme.com's entry for Saudi Arabia.

quote: Are there different terms for year-round watercourses and flood runoffs?

Yes, but I forgot what the bloody hell they were.... *mumbles*

Nice terrain specials. Might want to add in grape vines (used in Arabic food), pignolia nuts (in forest terrains) and maybe frankisensce(sp?) and myrrh. Just some ideas. I love my Arabic food.

	07-06-2003 07:25									#47
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'Shokran' for the terms and link (I hope I didn't just call you a hagfish ).

I'm hoping I'll have enough event space to put in a few that unleash Sa'ud's Ikhawan after the fall of Ha'il (soon to be renamed Saud & Hail).

Still wondering who invented Baklava. (starting a Greco-Lebanese flamefest)

	07-06-2003 08:24									#48
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Is Auda Abu-Tai a servant?!

	07-06-2003 11:09									#49
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Is that the translation of Auda? If you're cynical and anti-British, then perhaps you could call him a servant of the British. He was a sheik of the 'Eastern Howeitat', described as a Robin Hood warrior who absolutely hated the Turks. It was he whom Lawrence convinced to lead Bedouins to capture Akaba.

Anthony Quinn played him in the movie.

	09-06-2003 06:53									#50
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I don't think it means servant. I think you're referring to slang.

For more slang, visit this page:
http://www.notam.uio.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Arabic.html

LITTLE CHILDREN DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK!!!! That includes you, Hodad.
(Note, it has no porn, just dirty words.)

Oh, and the Lebanese OBVIOUSLY invented Baklava.

	29-06-2003 05:15									#51
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Bump!! Whats up with this thing Boco?

	29-06-2003 09:39									#52
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Testing, testing, and more testing. Fixed some playbalance problems around Gaza and in the Hejaz. Futzing around with GUE in Turk hands.

Mercator and Fairline have posted a lot lately that's going to improve the gfx. May have to bug them some more. The Brits wore pith helmets, shorts, and puttees in Palestine.

It's kinda fun trying to hold the Turks in Medina with a bunch of 0df Bedouins (handicapped spies). Can't stand up to full strength Turk units, but they can ambush them incessantly. Here's an example.

Last edited by Boco on 29-06-2003 at 11:04

	29-06-2003 19:06									#53
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I'll have you know that I got a copy of ToT just for this scenario, so you'd better finish it soon! :dointow!:

	29-06-2003 19:24									#54
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That screenshot's got me salivating too Boco. The terrain looks fantastic. Any chance I could steal some of it after this is released?

	29-06-2003 21:12									#55
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Try Red October while you're waiting. I stole half my tricks from him.

Fairline have I got a deal for you! . I'll email you with details.

	29-06-2003 22:15									#56
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Any idea where I can download more ToT scenarios?

	29-06-2003 22:24									#57
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quote: Originally posted by El Awrence Any idea where I can download more ToT scenarios?

Unfortunately there are only a few scenarios...
But check the Civfanatics Scenario Archive and the Cradle of Civilization.

	30-06-2003 02:02									#58
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Any idea where Red October might be?

	30-06-2003 02:18									#59
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http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/

	30-06-2003 02:21									#60
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http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/

edit: too late