29-05-2003 06:26									#121
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Kidicious:

How the hell is that a response to what i said... if anything, them getting their message out only harms themselves... don't suddenly create an allurement around the Klan by banning it... let them have their little rallies where they are brutally ridiculed and their ideas trashed... it's a very effective way in destroying the power of the KKK... right now, all its made up of is trailer trash who need to feel better than someone... it's not really a threat to anyone and it is trashed so much.

many times, idealogies have only gotten more popular when outlawed... keeping them in public view and ridiculed can be much more effective.

Also, i think some alterations are needed in society such as bringing some kind of jobs to these rural poor people. a man with a good job and confident in his abilities and the abilities of others, with no need to gain confidence through supposed superiority, will never done a hood.

	29-05-2003 06:28									#122
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quote: They do not violate any law,do not commit violence, so based on your rethoric should it be allowed in the US.

Yes, it should be allowed, and it will be. Free Speech should apply to all. How are we better than the Nazis when we silence political views we don't agree with?

quote: The Nazis should be outlawed too. Anyone who preaches hate should be.

Far left communists hate the rich. I guess we can ban the Communist party too!

	29-05-2003 06:44									#123
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Imran:

i dont think people realize how letting some groups give their speeches and have their rallies and what not is usually very effective in destroying their idealogy... let something stay public and let it be brutally ridiculed... sounds so simple...

	29-05-2003 06:45									#124
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Exactly... shutting it up just creates a MASSIVE underground movement. Look at neo-Nazis in Germany.

	29-05-2003 06:48									#125
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quote: The federal govt should have declared war on the KKK long ago and crushed them.

uhhh, where have you been?

	29-05-2003 07:00									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Exactly... shutting it up just creates a MASSIVE underground movement. Look at neo-Nazis in Germany.

Allowing it to exist can create an even larger underground movement, just look at islamic fundamentalism in western Europe...

	29-05-2003 07:02									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Kidicious: How the hell is that a response to what i said... if anything, them getting their message out only harms themselves... don't suddenly create an allurement around the Klan by banning it... let them have their little rallies where they are brutally ridiculed and their ideas trashed... it's a very effective way in destroying the power of the KKK... right now, all its made up of is trailer trash who need to feel better than someone... it's not really a threat to anyone and it is trashed so much. many times, idealogies have only gotten more popular when outlawed... keeping them in public view and ridiculed can be much more effective. Also, i think some alterations are needed in society such as bringing some kind of jobs to these rural poor people. a man with a good job and confident in his abilities and the abilities of others, with no need to gain confidence through supposed superiority, will never done a hood.

I don't think so. I think they can spread thier propaganda better when they are legal. You may think they sound stupid, but they can convince a lot of idiots with thier simple rhetoric.

	29-05-2003 07:02									#128
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quote: Allowing it to exist can create an even larger underground movement, just look at islamic fundamentalism in western Europe...

Why would you create an underground movement if it is legal? That's just silly.

Islamic fundamentalism is pretty low in Europe... it'd be even greater if you outlawed their parties.

	29-05-2003 07:03									#129
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quote: The federal govt should have declared war on the KKK long ago and crushed them.

They did declare war on the KKK, and they did crush them. The KKK came back several decades later, but it was no longer functioning as a terrorist organization -- instead it functioned primarily as a hate organization. Since terrorism is illegal, while hate is constitutionally protected, the first instantiation of the KKK was crushed while the second instantiation is still around.

	29-05-2003 07:03									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Far left communists hate the rich. I guess we can ban the Communist party too!

I don't care. I'm not a member

	29-05-2003 07:05									#131
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quote: I don't care. I'm not a member

Doesn't matter.... I find it scary to believe that you would have no problem with this.

	29-05-2003 07:06									#132
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger quote: The federal govt should have declared war on the KKK long ago and crushed them. They did declare war on the KKK, and they did crush them. The KKK came back several decades later, but it was no longer functioning as a terrorist organization -- instead it functioned primarily as a hate organization. Since terrorism is illegal, while hate is constitutionally protected, the first instantiation of the KKK was crushed while the second instantiation is still around.

Shame on me. I should know better.

	29-05-2003 07:07									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I don't care. I'm not a member Doesn't matter.... I find it scary to believe that you would have no problem with this.

I would, but not on the level that you might think. I don't believe that the communists have commited any terrorism in this country. I haven't seen any proof.

edit: btw, I think there is a difference between being a communist or a fascist and being a member of a party who plans violence or terrorism.

	29-05-2003 07:12									#134
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quote: I don't believe that the communists have commited any terrorism in this country.

Neither have Nazis.

	29-05-2003 07:27									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Allowing it to exist can create an even larger underground movement, just look at islamic fundamentalism in western Europe... Why would you create an underground movement if it is legal? That's just silly. Islamic fundamentalism is pretty low in Europe... it'd be even greater if you outlawed their parties.

While islamic fundamentalism is allowed, the terror networks remain underground ofcourse and are funded by non-underground organisations: charities, mosques, etc.

And I wouldn't call islamic fundamentalism low in Europe, since 2001 hundreds of terrorists who were planning to attack targets in Europe have been arrested in Spain, France, Italy, the UK, Belgium and the Netherlands.

The muslim fundamentalists in Belgium have been responsable for the murder of General Masood and have aided the terrorists who commited the attacks in Casablanca.

In the forests outside Brussels, an islamic "scouts" organisation is training teenagers to fight in the Jihad (atleast several people have been sent to Afghanistan already)

These things would be much harder to do if islamic fundamentalism was outlawed.

The nazi's otoh are being much more "repressed" than the islamic fundamentalists in Belgium, the result being that either there is no underground nazi movement or maybe they just aren't doing anything, I don't know...

	29-05-2003 07:51									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I don't believe that the communists have commited any terrorism in this country. Neither have Nazis.

But I don't like them

	29-05-2003 07:53									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious But I don't like them

What does that have to do with anything?

	29-05-2003 07:54									#138
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Aren't you suppose to make things you don't like illegal?

	29-05-2003 07:56									#139
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I don't like chocolate ice cream but you don't see me writing me Congressman to have it banned.

	29-05-2003 08:00									#140
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Just had another thought on this subject:

If being a Nazi is illegal, they'll just create a new organization with the same ideals but a different name.

	29-05-2003 08:01									#141
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I don't like chocolate ice cream but you don't see me writing me Congressman to have it banned.

I think I feel a little bit stronger about the Nazis than you do about chocolate ice cream .

	29-05-2003 08:05									#142
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Kidicious:

I'm sure DinoDoc or Imran or dozens of others would feel VERY strongly about someone being denied the rights of free speech... and they'd truly dislike anyone who promoted such restrictions on free speech... can we get you outlawed too?

of course, they would never try to do that because it would break their belief in free speech...

	29-05-2003 08:06									#143
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I think I'll play Devil's advocate.

Frankly I reckon that any organisation that exists through brainwashing should be proscribed. Example - David Koresh and his mates. I don't see the Nazis being any different.

	29-05-2003 08:06									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I think I feel a little bit stronger about the Nazis than you do about chocolate ice cream .

Your arguments, though simple, are really pretty damn good.

	29-05-2003 08:08									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Kidicious: I'm sure DinoDoc or Imran or dozens of others would feel VERY strongly about someone being denied the rights of free speech... and they'd truly dislike anyone who promoted such restrictions on free speech... can we get you outlawed too? of course, they would never try to do that because it would break their belief in free speech...

I believe in free speech for some, but not for others. I'm not your typical American I guess you might say.

	29-05-2003 08:13									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I think I feel a little bit stronger about the Nazis than you do about chocolate ice cream .

I doubt that.

	29-05-2003 08:14									#147
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Kidicious:

Ever heard the term slippery slope? or some are more equal than others?

	29-05-2003 08:17									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Kidicious: Ever heard the term slippery slope? or some are more equal than others?

A composite of your opinions from two threads:

Being a Nazi should be legal.
Adultery should be illegal.




I just find that amusing.

	29-05-2003 08:18									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I believe in free speech for some, but not for others. I'm not your typical American I guess you might say.

Now there's someone with his head screwed on the right way.

Let me ask the Hitler-lovers () this: If the Nazi Party, given what you know about them and their political program, became popular in the country you lived in and began to establish themselves as a political power by legitimate means, what would you do?

Would you leave them be and wait until they gained power and then attempted to overturn all the civil rights you wanted to protect, or would you suppress them, which would be bad for them, but good for all the people who would avoid the evil things they planned on doing?

Presumably, this dilemma once confronted the German authorities. I think they made the wrong choice, don't you?

	29-05-2003 08:20									#150
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JW:

Someone has the right to express views... also, i am convinced these views only get trashed and ridiculed by staying public so it makes more sense to keep them legal...

adultery, however, does do serious harm to the spouse and the children. furthermore, adultery is not protected by the US constitution