28-05-2003 10:26									#1
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When playing as the vikings; do you use the berserkers to attack from the sea?

	28-05-2003 12:13									#2
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I have... but over around 40 battles have found them to not be as effective as Cavalry from the land. Although the defense modifiers are greater against the Cavalry and they have the same attack values, losing a Cavalry unit is less likely due to the withdraw ability. The key would be to get to Berzerks well before Cavalry, something I haven't managed to do yet.

	28-05-2003 13:00									#3
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt The key would be to get to Berzerks well before Cavalry, something I haven't managed to do yet.

Strange, I was under the impression that Invention came a good five techs or so before MilTrad. You could DEFINITELY get Berserks earlier than you could get Cavalry. When I'm warmongering I often shoot down the lower branch for Cavalry, but in the one game I played as the Vikings, having those early Berserks was a killer. They hit hard (if slow), and the Cavalry mopped up later on.

	28-05-2003 13:26									#4
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True, you get berserkers much earlier than you get cavalry. And by the time you get cavalry your Civ could be in a Golden age which means you produce cavalry units fast!

	28-05-2003 14:18									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Nakar Gabab Strange, I was under the impression that Invention came a good five techs or so before MilTrad

Well, yes. I forgot to mention that I have only played the Vikings as a build-up to the current Civ3 Democracy game, with as many of the same settings as we have - 24 Civs, Huge Map, archipelago.... The sheer number of civs meant that tech progressed to Cavalry by the time I had Invention long enough to have decent numbers of Berzerks in action in my distant warzones. So perhaps you should ignore what I said.

Despite that, my experience at least showed a comparison between Cavalry and Berzerks, with Cavalry coming out WAY ahead.

	28-05-2003 22:15									#6
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Yeah. 24 civs is a little too extreme for me. I stick to 8 to 12.

Cavalry are better than Berserks for the two extra movement points alone. Retreat ability is excellent, but three movement is a superiority in itself. But like I said, under normal circumstances you can get Berserks first. If you can do that (and an archer upgrade helps under 1.14 PTW and later), you can assert dominance by land and sea, then cement it with knights and cavalry later.

In theory.

	28-05-2003 22:28									#7
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Berserks can be quite effective with more...standard...settings. They fit in nicely to add some extra punch to knights if you choose to go that route. Everyone gets muskets, your knights are not as effective, break out the berserks. MAKE SURE TO COVER THEM with defenders, though.

I have not used the amphibious assault MUCH, though, mostly because I tend to neglect my navy that early unless my home continent is already fully under my own control. I have used them effectively for taking a beachhead against fortified riflemen, though. Use the berserks to take the town, the rest of your force can then sail into the town and move out from there the same turn.

One game on Emperor stands out in my mind where I was able to instantly upgrade 20 archers to berserks to compliment my 30 knights. It's not often I have 2K gold laying around at that point in time, though. (or 20 archers for that matter)

	31-05-2003 02:47									#8
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I enjoy the Vikings simply because of the Berserk. I always play archipeligo and mostly water when I play them. Last week I had a slew of galleys sitting off an island totally controlled by Carthage with the exception of one lonely city I was able to found. I was kinda suspicious that the inhabitants were enjoying the Carthaginian culture so I had my forces laying of the coast just outside the Carthaginian influence. When my suspicions were confirmed and my city switched alligence to Carthage I moved in with all units attacking all the Carthaginian cities simultaneously. It was over in one turn! Glorious Victory!! ...I just love Berserks

	03-06-2003 08:31									#9
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Beserkers can provide a great surprise attack occasionally from the sea, but I am usually too lazy to pull off such an attack too often.

	03-06-2003 18:37									#10
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well..yeah..that's sorta what they do best.

	03-06-2003 19:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Beserkers can provide a great surprise attack occasionally from the sea, but I am usually too lazy to pull off such an attack too often.

I must admit that this was my feeling also until I went through the effort just once. It was really cool watching what they can truly do. I didn't play the Vikings much before that, but now they have become one of my favorites. I think that it is a huge advantage not giving the AI an extra turn to prepare for an attack.

	03-06-2003 19:20									#12
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An EXTRA turn? You didn't give them ONE turn to prepare!